How would you spend your time?

[Dennis Clarke]

Here is my scenario...I'm a Canadian citizen (thus a Canadian Passport which allows me 6 months in UK and 3 months in EU countries)...I'm heading to Hamble to complete my Yachtmaster Ocean Certification starting in February...(ending 1st week of June)….At that point I'm going to return to Mexico to sell my home and return to UK/EU to purchase a sailboat to live/cruise on. (Short list will include HR, Dehler, possibly Hanse or Rustler)
My question has to deal with: How would you divide up your time sailing between the UK and the EU countries given my Passport status...(Remember 6 months allowed with UK....but only 3 in EU countries)….and keep in mind that my Insurance broker says that I can't cross the Bay of Biscay between October 1st and April 1st)...as there would be no coverage during this time for obvious reasons.
So there you have it....and I'd be interested to read your responses and/or advise....as it will certainly help in planning out my plans when the time comes.
Thanks in advance.....and Happy New Years!

 

[overstag]

First thoughts: that's quite a big variation in boats. What made you decide on that shortlist?
The time question. I would decide where to go based on how you want to spend your time and where. Then work it out with your visa. Not the other way around. Buying a boat with EU VAT paid, will probably make your life easier. You can Always make a quick visa trip by air, if needed. Your boat is more difficult.
Living on a boat in the UK climate can be dreary in winter. Much nicer in the Med.

 

[V1701]

You don't have to do the whole Biscay crossing in one so I'd check with your insurance about coast hopping outside of the summer months which may give you a bit more flexibility. Saying that you probably would be ill-advised to be coast hopping down there or back during "winter" which illustrates the point that for most of Europe you need to make a decision about where you want to be for the Winter 6 months because you're not going to be doing much sailing pretty much wherever you are really in Europe during those six months. There are some places where you can anchor but not many really which means a lot of people choose a marina or a yard to haul out for the winter, even living aboard in the yard if they've nowhere else to go or want to do work on their boat. As overstag says UK October to April can be pretty unpleasant, I know having lived aboard full time for the last 10 years...

 

[Graham376]

Buying an EU VAT paid boat based in the EU will allow the boat to stay there as long as you want and, as Canadian citizen, you will most likely (assuming no changes after we leave the EU) be allowed to visit UK for limited periods in it without import duty/VAT. The 90 day rule may not be too much of a problem if based in some EU areas as you can spend 90 days in a non-EU adjacent country (even the UK) and then return again for another 90 in EU.

As said above, Biscay can be done by coastal sailing and there are lots of nice places to visit. Suggest asking insurers if you can be covered for French and Spanish coastal waters and maybe 25 miles offshore at all times of year. Algarve is good for winter sailing and Morocco is within easy reach outside of EU, not sure what status Gibraltar has for being in or out of UK or EU.

 

[Dennis Clarke]

First thoughts: that's quite a big variation in boats. What made you decide on that shortlist?
The time question. I would decide where to go based on how you want to spend your time and where. Then work it out with your visa. Not the other way around. Buying a boat with EU VAT paid, will probably make your life easier. You can Always make a quick visa trip by air, if needed. Your boat is more difficult.
Living on a boat in the UK climate can be dreary in winter. Much nicer in the Med.

The shortlist based on dollar value, ability to take me where I'd like to go...be either coastal or offshore. Yes boat will have vat paid...and time is divided between UK and EU (should have added that the time would be in the Med. which is why I mentioned The Bay of Biscay. Key on the sailboats will be to network with the people I'm going to meet while in Hamble Le Rice and get on board as many as I can.

 

[Dennis Clarke]

You don't have to do the whole Biscay crossing in one so I'd check with your insurance about coast hopping outside of the summer months which may give you a bit more flexibility. Saying that you probably would be ill-advised to be coast hopping down there or back during "winter" which illustrates the point that for most of Europe you need to make a decision about where you want to be for the Winter 6 months because you're not going to be doing much sailing pretty much wherever you are really in Europe during those six months. There are some places where you can anchor but not many really which means a lot of people choose a marina or a yard to haul out for the winter, even living aboard in the yard if they've nowhere else to go or want to do work on their boat. As overstag says UK October to April can be pretty unpleasant, I know having lived aboard full time for the last 10 years...

I'm thinking that in the end I would end up sailing 9 out of the 12 months - with the other 3 months I would keep my boat in the south coast od Spain..while travelling back to UK for 3 months...that way when I return at the beginning of April...I can then sail the Med for 3 months....then head for UK in July...to return to Med in late Sept..then continue the next 3 months back in the Med which would complete the year.

 

[Dennis Clarke]

Buying an EU VAT paid boat based in the EU will allow the boat to stay there as long as you want and, as Canadian citizen, you will most likely (assuming no changes after we leave the EU) be allowed to visit UK for limited periods in it without import duty/VAT. The 90 day rule may not be too much of a problem if based in some EU areas as you can spend 90 days in a non-EU adjacent country (even the UK) and then return again for another 90 in EU.

As said above, Biscay can be done by coastal sailing and there are lots of nice places to visit. Suggest asking insurers if you can be covered for French and Spanish coastal waters and maybe 25 miles offshore at all times of year. Algarve is good for winter sailing and Morocco is within easy reach outside of EU, not sure what status Gibraltar has for being in or out of UK or EU.

Thanks for the advise...yes the insurance companies I've enquired with...and that means most of them...have limited my coverage area for the first year...but that's ok because I can use that time to become familiar with my new sailboat and practising my skills...plus I've got lot's of time.

 

[jdc]

Welcome to the forum, and, I hope, in due course to the UK yachting scene.

It may be worth exploring getting a visa. The 6 months in the UK (and 3 in the Schengen countries, which is not exactly the same as the EU; you'll find Scandinavia odd in this regard) is for people from various countries, including the USA, who arrive with no visa. As a Canadian citizen you don't need a visa, but you might consider applying for one which could allow you to stay longer. In general Commonwealth citizens are looked upon favourably.

There used to be a UK scheme for retired people of independent means which granted 5 years (extendable) residency. AFIK this is no longer available, but has very likely been absorbed into another catch-all category rather than being abolished altogether. Be aware that to get these visas one almost always has to apply in one' country of residence, ie Canada in your case. You might as well ask anyway (and do let us know how it turns out!).

 

[Graham376]

Thanks for the advise...yes the insurance companies I've enquired with...and that means most of them...have limited my coverage area for the first year...but that's ok because I can use that time to become familiar with my new sailboat and practising my skills...plus I've got lot's of time.

You mention buying a boat in the UK or EU for use mainly in the Med. I don't know if you have read the many threads on the forum but, as things stand at the moment, unless there is a deal with the EU, a UK registered boat must be in EU waters when we leave the EU or, it will lose its VAT paid status there.

For UK boats going foreign, we have two boat registers, Part1 & Part 3 (the small ships register) and for the latter, you must be a UK resident. I don't know whether a foreign national can have a boat on Part1 register, others will advise on that but, I understand it's quite expensive to register if not already on it.

I don't know anything about buying an EU State flagged boat and registering it there. Maybe an option will be to buy an EU VAT paid boat (in UK or EU) and registering it on Canadian flag.

 

[overstag]

Am I correct in reading that you wish to travel from the Med to the UK and back every year? You will find that is some serious traveling, to do on a yearly basis.
Again, have another look at your shortlist of boats. If you really want make that many offshore miles every year, I would ditch the Hanse and the Dehler. But even better; do your sailing course and decide again on your plans. Then buy the boat that fits your plans. Then sort out the visas.

 

[PilotWolf]

Bear in mind although you are allowed 6 months/3 months in country there maybe a requirement how long you have to be out of the country between visits,

W.

 

[AndrewB]

Don't forget Turkey and Montenegro in the Med, both decent sailing destinations outside the EU, where you can also stay for up to 3 months, and if you wish, leave a yacht safely. I know Americans based in Greece who use these each year to extend their stay in the region indefinitely. Albania, Tunisia and Morocco also have marinas and allow 3 months.

P.S. Although my American friends worry about this, I wonder whether the Greek authorities would strictly enforce the EU's 3 month rule for a low-profile, self-funding Canadian living on a yacht.

 

[Baddox]

I’d aim to buy a boat from the West coast of Scotland in Spring and spend the summer exploring the coast and islands there. You can then either wind your way south with the season or take a more adventurous route north perhaps passing Orkney and Shetland before turning east to Scandinavian and mainland Europe.