How to tie a loop in webbing?

[Anonymous]

I'm replacing my jack stays and I want to tie a tape knot in the new webbing. On the internet I have found plenty of descriptions of how to tie two pieces of tape together with a tape knot, but I need to form small loops at the end of long (11 metre) pieces, in an accurate position or in such a way that I can avoid any slack in the jack stays.

Can anyone tell me how to tie these knots or, even better, point me to an internet resource that shows pictures? I have spent over an hour Googling without success. Many thanks.

 

[Roy]

Can they be sewn?? If so, use strong water resistant thread.

 

[pvb]

\"avoid any slack\"...

Your idea of wanting to "avoid any slack" in the jackstays isn't necessarily the best solution. If you think about the geometry involved, a given perpendicular pull on a taut jackstay will result in much higher forces in the jackstay than the same pull would on a looser jackstay. There's probably a compromise to be reached. In many cases, jackstays are not strong enough for the forces likely to be encountered in a real emergency.

 

[ongolo]

Re: \"avoid any slack\"...

Pvb is right.

Could you make a butterfly? as the mounteneers use? dont know how that works on webbing, but worked like a charm making a rope ladder.

regards ongolo

 

[Krusty]

Lemain, what do your webbing tapes attch to:- flats, (e.g. D-rings, shackle-pins)? or rings? I just might have an answer.

 

[Anonymous]

Re: \"avoid any slack\"...

Yes, I came across that in the previous recent thread on jackstays. Perhaps I really mean that I want to be able to control the position of the knot - i.e. make the knot where I want it, and not where it just happens to end up! I'm absolutely hopeless at knots and have to learn them one at a time and practice until the penny drops....it's not something that comes naturally to me /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[Anonymous]

The bow end goes to a deck ring and the after end to a shackle (it is threaded through another shackle midships). I want it to lie nice and flat so it doesn't trip me up.

 

[bilbobaggins]

A) If you insist on tying, the ONLY way is to use a 'double overhand' or 'tape' knot. Visit any shop selling climbers' tapes, and/or look in a modern book on climbing techniques, for how to tie this. The knot is, of course , moderately bulky.

B) A better way is to double an end back and sew the end to the standing part, to make your loop. Sew a 'gate' shape with two diagonals, with the shape at least 6 times the width of the tape.

Then feed this loop through your deckeye, and pass t'other end of your tape through the loop, forming a 'cinch hitch' ( I think ). Work tight. Combat chafe by making some turns of gaffer tape around the relevant part of the deckeye.

At the other end, make up a similar 'cinch hitch' to your shackle. You should be able to feed any unwanted slack bit-by-bit through the hitch until there is just enough length to secure the shackle to your other 'deckeye' or whatever, under a litle tension.

Then remove, sew up and combat chafe as before, and refit.

That should do the trick.

 

[Krusty]

Lemain: (I wish I could show diagrams, but not into that on computers!) I suggest you first seal the tape ends against fraying. Pass an end through your ring or shackle, then round the standing (incoming) part, back round th ring/shackle UNDERNEATH the first pass (trapping it), to leave about three inches of tail lying flat under the standing part: then sew them together with two rows of staggered stitches, using No.4 waxed whipping twine, sailmaker's needle and palm.(which every boatowner should have on board). At the other end, leave enough slack to allow easy working (and to avoid excessive loads if it becomes the life-saver) and secure the same way. Then take up the slack like this: lightly sew a D-ring to the tape about two feet from the aft end, double a three-foot length of strong shock-cord through it, stretch it to the aft shackle, pass through and tie off with a figure-of eight stopper-knot The tension keeps the tape flat to the deck, but allows it to 'stress-relieve' under heaviy load. I have use this principle on several things for thirty years: It works. The cost is replacing the shock-cord when it gets tired, every three years or so. Hope this helps. K.

 

[Strathglass]

Have a look at www.utas.edu.au/docs/climbing_club/TUCC/knots/tape.html
I think this is what you want.
I would also sew up the tails with the correct thread

Cheers

Iain

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks Ian, I did find that one and (this shows how useless I am at knots) I just can't figure out how to tie it to form a nice small loop around a ring, given that I have 11 metres of webbing on one side. The top diagram "Tape knot on the bight" suddenly arrives at one standing part and two ends, seemingly from one end of the tape, 'just like that', a la Tommy Cooper. The second example says in the heading that it is for joining two ends but it suddenly departs from the plot; I can follow it from pic 1 to pic 2 and I suspect that pic 3 shows the other end of the tape coming in from the top right? If so, there are 11 metres of loop in that example! In any case, I can't see how to get from pic 3 to pic 4. I'm sure it's me - I have always struggled with knots but this time more than unusual.

Thanks, Ian, and to everyone for your help and support!

 

[Anonymous]

I love your idea of tensioning with shock cord. That will come in handy in a couple of other places. As for the jack stays, I was planning to stitch carefully the ends to prevent the knot from working free - I have all the right kit for sewing canvas, etc. and it is a skill that I need to practice. However, I would feel more comfortable starting with a knot that is by itself intrinsically safe rather than rely on the stitching.

 

[snowleopard]

start by tying a thumb knot in the tape just short of the fixing point - the exact position is unimportant. whe properly tied so the tape isn't twisted the knot has a pentagon shape.

now pass the loose end through the eyebolt and bring it back to the knot. you now simply pass the end back through the knot, following exactly the path of the original tape. it's simple to adjust the length of the jackstay at the point where the tape has gone through the first loop of the knot.

in the days when tape was first introduced for climbing this was called a 'water knot' though it's probably called something else now.


better still, sew it.

 

[dulcibella]

A tape knot with the end sewn down to the standing part works fine for me.

 

[Anonymous]

I'll have another go later in the week when we get back from London - many thanks.