How to go faster!!

[pcatterall]

Our old Neptunian ketch will sail ok with a decent breeze but we would like to improve performance when the winds are lighter. Mainly so we can cruise at worthwhile speeds without having to put the engine on.
We have very large Genoa, the main is quite modest and the mizzen useful but small.
We do have an unused inner stay fitted some 3 feet down the mast and onto the deck some 9feet n front of the mast.
Crew are not happy about sailing with a spinnaker.

We have considered using the inner stay in some way or even a mizzen stay sail.
What would the experts advise?

 

[lw395]

I'd advise not starting with a ketch.
My experience of sailing ketches in anything less than 'quite windy' has not been great.
First thing is probably to check that the main and jib are in reasonable shape and doing as well as can be expected for their size.
Then check that the mizzen is not messing things up.
People tend to sail these things without actually looking at the mizzen much, it does not make for great performance!

Maybe a main with more roach is a possibility? Maybe the same for the mizzen? Bowsprit?
A bigger mizzen and moving the genoa onto a sprit for balance might work?

I don't think turning it into a cutter will add that much, but it does give nice options for reducing sail, and allows the genoa to be a good genoa and not an all-purpose compromise.

A spinnaker really is the simplest way to get a real boost downwind in the light stuff.
Maybe there is a way to get comfortable with the idea? A few hundred quid on coaching or gaining experience on another boat might be well spent in the overall scheme of things?
But if you want better upwind performance, then bigger (or better?) fore and aft sails may be needed?

Also think about the drag.
Is the bottom smooth?
Do you have a big fixed prop?

 

[Thistle]

Have you ever sailed a dinghy? They are great for learning how to set up rig and sails. Most of the skills learned on a dinghy can be transferred pretty much directly to bigger boats. I'd suggest making sure your are getting the best from what you have before going to the trouble and expense of adding anything extra.

 

[CCJ]

Our old Neptunian ketch will sail ok with a decent breeze but we would like to improve performance when the winds are lighter. Mainly so we can cruise at worthwhile speeds without having to put the engine on.
We have very large Genoa, the main is quite modest and the mizzen useful but small.
We do have an unused inner stay fitted some 3 feet down the mast and onto the deck some 9feet n front of the mast.
Crew are not happy about sailing with a spinnaker.

We have considered using the inner stay in some way or even a mizzen stay sail.
What would the experts advise?

Is this boat new to you, it will take time to learn how to get the best from her

 

[Pete7]

For £1000 you can have a folding prop which ought to be worth 1/2 - 3/4 of a knot under sail in all directions.

 

[lpdsn]

I think lw395 has it in his first line. Nethertheless there are things you can do. Get a book called Trim by North U and work on trimming the sails properly (might need new sails). You'll be amazed at how much difference halyard tension, for example, makes. Tuning the rig can also make an amazing difference. Light airs trim is an art in itself.

Next ensure the hull is clean (and get a folding or feathering prop). At slow speeds frictional resistance predominates. Racers put a lot more effort into the hull prep than you'll want to. It does make a difference.

Lighten the boat. That extra couple of ton of cruising gear messes up your power to weight ratio, so how much can you do without.

Learn to steer with minimal helm movements. Balance the boat, get the helm right and keep her going.

 

[Neeves]

If you decide to alter the wardrobe in any way (so are going to spend some money) get a sailmaker on board (it should be part of their marketing to offer you the best options). They, or someone who races - will tell you if you have an optimum sail plan. The genoa may be large but is it old and heavy.

How is the balance under sail, do you have a lot of weather helm?

The rest is as mentioned - check the hull for cleanliness (if it is in any way fouled - you have no chance), change the prop, get rid of excess weight, is she sailing to her lines (or do you have too much weight in the bow (chain), or stern.

One way to check if weight is an issue - go for a sail, come back, empty the tanks - go for another sail. Same with chain, dump it all (preferably somewhere that you can easily retrieve it - does it make any difference.

Jonathan

 

[Goldie]

On our Biscay 36, the mizzen staysail was well worth it’s weight. It was slightly larger than the main (deceptive, but 235 sq ft as opposed to 220) and pulled like a train with apparent wind angles between 65 and 150. Sheeted from the windward chainplate to the end of the mizzen boom it was easy to handle too; just ease the sheet a little and then lower the halyard to drop it into the cockpit. I’ve no experience of the Neptunian I’m afraid but still have a pic of our Biscay, with staysail as my avatar here.

 

[Daydream believer]

The cheapest way to improve performance is to have a very clean hull & have it very smooth. Just scraping the old stuff & painting over the edges is no use. all old paint edges need to be faired & the new antifoul paint needs to be decent & properly applied. A folding prop is expensive so possibly a no no.

Then, as others have said, lighten the boat as much as possible. Whilst your existing boat has loads of room you have probably used that room & loaded it with junk that is only "handy even if you never need it"

You have to accept that the boat that you have is not exactly a race horse & the best way to improve performance is to change the boat. You probably do not need the space that you think you do. You could also do away with the hassle of the mizzen. That makes new sails, rigging etc cheaper & life much easier.

 

[NealB]

On our Biscay 36, the mizzen staysail was well worth it’s weight. It was slightly larger than the main (deceptive, but 235 sq ft as opposed to 220) and pulled like a train with apparent wind angles between 65 and 150. Sheeted from the windward chainplate to the end of the mizzen boom it was easy to handle too; just ease the sheet a little and then lower the halyard to drop it into the cockpit. I’ve no experience of the Neptunian I’m afraid but still have a pic of our Biscay, with staysail as my avatar here.

Yes ... we used an old jib as a mizzen staysail, years ago, to great effect on our old Seadog.

She was still no greyhound, of course, but it did help on a beam reach, and was fun to play around with.

 

[CalicoJack]

The original sail plan showed a mizzen staysail. Like you our Neptunian likes the breeze, but provided it’s not too far down wind, we don’t do badly.
PS we fitted a Kiwi prop, which helped.

 

[{151760}]

It might be worth investing in one of those roller-furling code zeros. They are much simpler to use than a spinnaker and seem to be usable over quite a large range of wind-angles.