How to buy an ex charter boat abroad?

[nobby668]

Hi, I'm planning on buying an ex charter boat (probably moorings/sun sail) in either Greece or Turkey. The idea is to live aboard 6/7 months a year. If I buy, for instance, a boat with a Greek flag, do I register it as a British boat or keep the Greek flag ? Do I have to pay VAT ? Does it make things easier to enter different countries if the boat has a British flag ?
I have no intention of bringing the boat back to the UK, I'm just looking forward to long hot summers in the Med as the annual two week charter doesn't cut the mustard anymore !
Thanks in advance for any help,
Nobby

 

[Baggywrinkle]

If you keep the boat in an EU country and you are an EU citizen then yes, you have to pay VAT. You also can't visit an EU country without paying VAT. If you keep the boat in Turkey you can do what I did in Croatia. Buy a boat and immediately export it (no Turkish or EU VAT needs to be paid.) Then re-import it back into Turkey on a temporary basis under a U.K. flag as a visiting vessel.

There might be some cheap boats available in Greece with VAT already paid which means you can sail anywhere in the Med without a problem.

 

[nobby668]

Thanks Baggywrinkle, if I buy a yacht and then pay the vat and register the boat as British, do I only pay the vat rate for the country I'm in ? Is it a difficult process to change the registration ?

 

[Melody]

Greek charter yachts have special professional registration which entitles them to lower port and other charges, but in order to keep this you would need to continue as a professional boat and do 180 days charter in 3 years and keep all the safety equipment inspected and register each charter with the port police etc etc - not worth doing unless you intend to run the yacht for business purposes. The company you buy it from will arrange for it to be removed from the Hellenic registry.

If you intend to become resident in Greece you could keep the yacht as a private Greek flagged boat but I don't think there are any advantages to doing that as opposed to registering it in the UK. I doubt if you could register as a private Greek yacht without a Greek tax number and possibly a Greek address as well.

When you buy a charter yacht (as a charter company) you don't pay VAT at the time but when the yacht is sold you have to charge VAT if it's sold to a private individual. However, in typical Greek style, you may find that the VAT is charged on a lower price than you actually paid This is only partly fiddling as most charter yachts will effectively have had most of their value written off on the company's books by the time they are sold, although the buyer obviously has to pay more than the 'book' value.

Lots of bargains to be had and many ex-charter yachts are very good buys but be careful and always, always, get a survey done.

You would pay VAT in the country you buy in. Changing registration isn't difficult but it does take a long time. The charter company here will do this end and you can do the UK bit by post. It can take some time though - be prepared for several weeks for the paperwork to be sorted out.

 

[chinita]

I have just bought a German Registered boat in Portugal. The broker wrote to the German Registry and cancelled it. Got confirmation ten days later. I then got an SSR online. Nothing could be simpler.

Wherever you pay VAT in the EU it is acceptable anywhere in the EU. The azores is tipped to be the cheapest, however, I was on board staying with some Swedish friends who bought a Canadian boat in Spain - for about €80k. They applied to the Aduanas in Almerimar. The boat was not inspected and they got a VAT paid chit for €75.00 (or something ridiculous like that).

Perhaps they were just lucky, I don't know, but I was gobsmacked.

Mind you, this was in 2005 - when Spain probably did not need the money!

 

[Melody]

You might be lucky and get it in 10 days but I'd expect it to take longer in Greece. The SSR bit will be quick; it's Greek bureocracy that moves slowly (I can never spell that word!)

It's better to plan for a delay and be pleasantly surprised if it doesn't happen than to be stuck in a marina waiting to leave and unable to do so because you don't have your boat's papers, and I've known that happen to a couple of people.

 

[Tranona]

I have a an ex charter boat bought in Greece. The process is very straightforward. The charter operator will normally advertise the boat without VAT, because in some circumstances as Melody outlines it is possible to keep the boat as a charter boat and reclaim the VAT. However, this is not open to you if you want to use the boat privately. Once you have agreed the price the vendor will charge VAT at the ruling rate in Greece and you will get a receipt. Vital that you keep that receipt. There will be a charge for removing the boat from the Greek register and you will need to get the Bill of Sale endorsed by the Port Police as part of this process. You can then register on the SSR (assuming you are UK resident). You will need to insure it, but most British insurers will provide cover and a Greek translation of the certificate. You are then free to use the boat in Greece, although you will need a DEKPA if it is over 10m.

Look at Greek operators as well as the international companies. They are quite familiar with the process. Make sure there are no outstanding charges against the boat - many are financed by bank mortgages, but these are normally registered so will need to be discharged before title is passed. Although most charter boats will be well maintained, getting them ready for sale is often a low priority activity for staff, so you need to be extra careful in vetting the boat. However, you should look to pay around 15-20% less than a similar private boat, although it is often difficult to make direct comparisons as charter boats usually have a different make up of "extras". This can be an advantage because the type of equipment is usually well suited to use in the local environment. Some operators will agree to a charter of the boat you are interested in and waive all or part of the fee if you buy. Useful for confirming whether the boat is for you.

One last thing to watch is that some charter boats are not owned by the operator, but privately owned under charter management schemes. They may still, however be registered in the name of the operator, so make sure that you know who is the beneficial owner and get clear title.

 

[Tranona]

You might be lucky and get it in 10 days but I'd expect it to take longer in Greece. The SSR bit will be quick; it's Greek bureocracy that moves slowly (I can never spell that word!)

It's better to plan for a delay and be pleasantly surprised if it doesn't happen than to be stuck in a marina waiting to leave and unable to do so because you don't have your boat's papers, and I've known that happen to a couple of people.

Yes, it took 3 weeks to process my boat's paperwork. I did , however, get the BofS authorised beforehand when both my wife and I (we are joint owners) were in Corfu. Otherwise you need to get it notarised by the Greek embassy or a recognised Greek lawyer.

 

[maxy]

We operate in Turkey. All our yachts are UK privately owned and VAT is not paid. Yachts can be kept here post sale under their UK flag and VAT is not payable.

I would also agree with having a survey, and using an independent broker, not the charter companies sales team. The independent broker will as part of his job check for clear title.

Have a look around various charter companies websites to see what is available. Regarding price, you always get what you pay for. There are some awful ex charter yachts as there are private yachts, but there are also some very well maintained ones, so don't assume the probable condition of a yacht from its source.

Timing is also important. If we have a yacht for sale it would not be available until the end of the charter season, or a new owner could continue with her in charter depending on age etc. The new yacht buying process begins late summer so in the next couple of months you are likely to see more yachts appearing.

As a separate issue we know of several owners of ex charter yachts (not ours) who routinely take them without VAT paid status into Symi without issue. If you find a VAT paid yacht in Turkey, approach the owner with the idea of 'doing the deal' in Greece (making sure to get a marina receipt) to maintain the VAT status.

Happy hunting