How old does a boat need to be to not need a VAT certificate?

[Babylon]

I'm now getting a bit worried about wallies in black suddenly leaping aboard while I'm sailing / at anchor / having a row with SWMBO / etc. I'm also planning my first trip over to France.

I keep the Pt 1 Registration document on board. What else does officialdom here and in France require me to present on demand?

* Bill of Sale from the brokers (bought second hand)?
* VAT certificate - I don't have one, the boat is a UK production yacht launched in 1982 and has passed through several UK-based owners only.

 

[Tranona]

No need to worry. You do not need a VAT receipt at all. Even for those boats that in theory need them (post 92) nobody official seems to be in the least bit interested. So long as you have your Part 1 registration in your name and maybe also the Bill of Sale to show that it is legally yours and you purchased it from a private person you are OK.

Just follow the guidance on Taking your Boat Abroad from the RYA and you can't go wrong.

 

[snowleopard]

It's a bit of a minefield. A boat may have been VAT paid or launched before a certain date but it can lose its VAT status. If a boat is sold outside the EU then returns to be resident in the EU (defined as being in EU waters more than 18 months) then VAT becomes due for a second time. In theory VAT can become due an infinite number of times on the same boat.

I can't give you the exact rules as the RYA site is broken.

I carry a selection of invoices for key equipment and materials as my boat is home-built but I've never been asked to produce them, even when boarded by French customs. I was once asked for proof of ownership by a French customs official in Martinique but he backed off when I said I'd have to go back to the boat for them. I think he was only showing off the fact that he could read the bit on the part 3 certificate that says 'this does not constitute proof of ownership'.

 

[jerryat]

HM Customs told me years ago when they issued what was then called an SAD document (VAT paid 'proof') that the exemption date for proof of VAT paid was 1984 or earlier.

Took me ages to gather all the 'proof' they wanted (yard bills, boat purchases etc) and, after all that, it's never been asked for anywhere we sailed including the Med and Caribbean. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[snowleopard]

They no longer offer any sort of VAT-paid certificate so that avenue is now closed.

 

[wooslehunter]

I was boarded by HMCE a couple of years ago in the entrance to Chi Harbour. The boat's 1974 and all I have is an MCA Bill of Sale. All this proves is that if VAT is payable, it's the responsibility of HMCE & not any other EU customs.

There was no problem.

 

[Babylon]

Thanks people.

Tried the RYA site - there's sufficient basic info on the publicly-accessible part of the site (although, annoyingly, I cannot log in, even as a member!).

According to the RYA, the full basic set of ships papers to carry are:
* Registration Docs (Pt 1 in my case, SSR in other cases)
* Bill of Sale (if you have one)
* Proof of VAT paid (not applic in our case as boat built and launched in 1982)
* Insurance Documents
* Ship's Radio Licence

Personal docs needed:
* Passport
* EHIC card (European health insurance)
* ICC
* VHF operator's certificate

 

[Tranona]

Thats it. The ICC is useful, but very rarely asked for. If you are a member, then go back over the last 4 or 5 members magazines and there have been useful articles explaining in more detail the background to all the documents. In practice the key ones are your registration document, insurance and passport.

 

[robbieg]

Whilst there are RYA guides and HMRC Notices neither the RYA or HMRC seem able to point to the bit of legislation that says you need to show VAT was paid on your boat and certainly no one seems able to point to any legislation to say that if you buy a used boat from a UK private vendor (in good faith) you are responsible for any VAT the original owner did not pay on first purchase-be rather strange if I was since if I buy a used car, telly etc I am not responsible for unpaid VAT-in the absence of specfic legislation why should a boat be different?

Although hard to find anyone with a AWB or MAB who has been fined or had the boat impounded you may have some difficulty overseas if you don't have VAT docs. However, if stopped by HMRC I wouldn't worry to much about not being able to prove VAT's paid-as far as I can see there is no law that says you have to.

That is not to say it isn't nice to have a VAT invoice to waive at the MIB to avoid the hassle of a debate with someone who is likely to take the view you should not question the "party line".

Several long posts about all this if you search the forum-particularly by tax advisor JFM on the mobo forum.