How often do we get "run down" ??

[Guest]

Over the last couple of years I have read numerous posts (e.g. see the one about clipping yourself on to the boat below) that used the phrase "may be run down by a ....".

There then follows the words "container ship", "ferry", "super-tanker", "submarine" etc.

OK I have heard of numerous "near misses" reported on these forums and in the boating magazines - but I have a couple of questions.

1. How many boats are actually "run down" in UK and near continental waters by these leviathans of the sea in the average year?

2. In similar waters and in the same period how many boats are hit by other boats of a similar size (and manned by equally inexperienced crews)?

I have a sneaking suspicion that my attention would be better concentrated on a fellow sailor crossing my bows than on the 200,000 ton tanker that is currently heaving up over the horizon!!??

What do you think?

Best regards )

Ian D

 

[hlb]

Re: How often do we get \"run down\" ??

I dont know, but I think the amount run down is going to increase dramaticaly since your new mate Alan Porter joined the forum!!

No one can force me to come here-----------
----- I'm a Volunteer!!!

Haydn

 

[roger]

Only takes once!

I hired a catamaran out of Poole for a w/e. Fine. Sometime later it was hired by some Birmingham business men (I think) they went over to Cherbourg but never arrived back. Because of my distant connection with the boat, that disappearance got to me.
I dont think its a reason for not clipping on though.

 

[Bergman]

Re: How often do we get \"run down\" ??

A matter of probability and consequence I think.

Probably more likely to be hit by another amateur, but consequences usually limited to scratches and dents.

Consequences of collision with 200,000 ton tanker rather more serious.

Think its called risk management.

 

[ToMo]

Re: Only takes once!

Expand please...I have a vestred interest!
TôMö

 

[Guest]

Re: Only takes once!

"Risk" = "Severity of Hazard" multiplied by "Likelihood of Occurrence".

"Risk Management" = "Assessing risk and then acting on the findings." This means:

1. Accepting the risk as it is.

2. Taking steps to reduce the likelihood of the hazard being realised.

3. Taking steps to reduce the severity of the hazard if it is realised.

At all times the aim of risk management is to reduce the risks to a level that is "as low as reasonably practicable" (called "ALARP").


If everyone applied the principles or risk management accidents would reduce dramatically and all safety regulations would become redundant overnight.

With regards to "it only takes once" - just remember:

"A bachelor is a man who didn't make the same mistake once."

Best regards )

Ian D

 

[ToMo]

Re: Only takes once!

Thank you Ian, actually I was refering to the Cat incident that roger mentioned.
- I'm in the process of buying a Cat.
TôMö

 

[oldharry]

Re: Only takes once!

I remember the same argument about seat belts in cars when that became law - everyone had heard of someone who 'would have died' had they been wearing a belt (i.e. they were thrown clear during the accident, or would not have been able to escape from a burning vehicle quickly enough).

Nanny state will never be able to legislate total safety for us.

 

[MedMan]

Re: Only takes once!

It's a small world! I chartered that same catamaran from Poole the year before she was lost. It was the only time I have ever fallen overboard. We were at anchor in South Deep and I lent back against the guard wires. The lashing at the pushpit end parted and I did a neat backward somersault into the water. The kids thought it was absolutely hilarious but I have never chartered a boat since!

 

[dickh]

Re: How often do we get \"run down\" ??

The only recent one I know is the "Tuila" which was on passage from Holland to UK - about 2 years ago - all they found later were a few bits and pieces. I was on passage to Holland at the time and we heard the Coastguard and search aircraft calling on the VHF for them, and saw the aircraft - very sobering...

dickh
I'd rather be sailing...

 

[Robin2]

Re: Only takes once!

Great idea, catamaran.

On the question of Running Down -- there was a very nasty incident in Dublin port in 2000 (?) in which a yacht collided with a large vessel in the dark. A number of people on the yacht were killed.

 

[kdf]

Re: Only takes once!

June 2001 - 3 dead and one survived. happend a couple of hundred metres outside the entrance to Dublin port. The scary thing about this one was that both vessels knew of the other - The coaster pilot had seen the yacht on the way out to the ship, had them on radar. The Yacht also knew the coaster as there but what appears to have happened is that the yacht lost the coaster in the background clutter and they collided.

 

[Chris_Stannard]

Re: How often do we get \"run down\" ??

Only incident I know about, not so far referred to, was the Bluebell. She was hit at night on 9 August 1999, about 20 miles South of the Needles, by a 'steamer'. One man went over the side but was recovered. Bluebell was badly damaged and tow of her crew were lifted off by the Solent Rescue helicoper, whilst Bluebell was towed in by the Yarmouth lifeboat. I was out but too far away to help. I was very grateful it was not me since the weather was not good that night and the coxswain of the lifeboat said he had a long and difficult tow.

My own feeling remains stay out of the way of those b******y great stell things, they do not always take the actions they should and they can givce you a nasty headache

Chris Stannard

 

[EdEssery]

Re: How often do we get \"run down\" ??

Don't forget the incident at the start of the Round The Island Race in the late Eighties - I forget the exact year.

The wind was very light. A whole string of boats were in line abreast reaching very slowly west across Cowes entrance to their start. A Southampton Cowes Hydtrofoil (and it was a Hydrofoil, not a "RedJet") saw an opportunity to get through the fleet and passed down the front of this collection of boats - still up on his foils. Unfortunately a boat, which I don't think was actually racing, motor sailed out of a gap in the boats line abreast straight under the port foil of the Hydrofoil, was holed and sank. The Solent Coastguard helicopter was on scene in under five minutes. I was racing that day and although we couldn't see anything due to the sheer number of boats, I can still hear the sickening bang to this day.

As I recall, one of the guys on the yacht had a broken leg and the Hydrofoil skipper was prosecuted.

Ed

 

[Andrew_Fanner]

Re: How often do we get \"run down\" ??

By the same token, just how many people's boats are holed/sunk etc by hitting containers that have gone ob. Statistically they must be a higher number given that "one" container ship has the ability to lose "many" containers.

Two beers please, my friend is paying.

 

[Guest]

The reason I asked .........

.......... was that last year on holiday:

o on the Ramsgate to Calais leg outbound (in thick fog) I didn't see or hear another vessel - until the fog lifted at Calais and the "dodge a ferry every five minutes" routine kicked in.

o however, on the Dunkirk to Ramsgate leg inbound (on a lovely clear day) I found myself altering Course nine or ten times to avoid (i.e. miss them by at least 400 yards) a variety of large vessels that were bearing down on me.

From this post we have a total "run downs" of three vessels in the last five years.

As risk assessment goes - that's a pretty good average considering the number of "encounters" that are reported.

It also fits in with the 1 - 40 - 300 theory whereby for every single major incident there will be forty minor incidents and three hundred "near misses".

Going back to the Ramsgate to Calais leg last year I can only assume that with such poor visibility everyone on the bigger ships were glued to their radars - and steering clear of little old me.

On the other hand I understand that on the same day a super-tanker mowed down a French fishing boat (skipper missing presumed dead) so maybe not all of them were paying 100% attention.

That's life I guess - "Risk is inherent in all activities."

Many thanks for your replies.

Ian D

 

[johnsomerhausen]

I'd think it would very much depend on the location. Even in the Western Channel (let's say between the Lizard and L'Abeerwrach), you will find plenty of traffic along the two coasts, but much less or none in the middle, so that the risk of collision is mcuh lower. John Letcher, an American sailor from California, who's written two books ("Self-steering for Sailing Craft" and "Self-contained Navigation"), once calculated that between San Francisco and Hawai (a crossing he made a few times), even if nobody was on watch on eitheer his boat or a steamer, his chances of collision were one in every six voyages. Nevertheless, he had two collisions with fishing boats near the California coast (he was on deck but didn't have an engine). The only time I ordered my crew to take off their harnesses and put on lifejackets was off Finisterre in a thick fog, with fog horns blaring from all directions
john