How Often Are Weir Gates Adjusted ?

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GAJ52

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Having been one of the unlucky properties to have been flooded during the last winter floods, I am monitoring the EA River level website very closely. The area I am particularly monitoring is Old Windsor Lock and Downstream. Over the last few days I have noticed a few sudden peaks and troughs of the depth at the lock, some two or three times a day, so assume somewhere in the system the Weir gates are being adjusted.

Does anyone know how often the weir gates will be adjusted after periods of heavy rain as we have had lately. Apart from the flooding issue I find the whole subject of river level/flow management quite fascinating and would like to learn more how its controlled.

Glen
 
Have you got a link for the EA river levels website? I didn't know there was one(unless you mean river conditions). I'd find it very handy as I only need to know the speed if planning to venture out, but a significant rise would cause me a problem when moored
 
Weir gates are adjusted as necessary. You might be on the weir once a day , you might be on it ten times a day.

A lot depends on what the lock above you does , they may pass down a weir message saying that 'At X lock , I've just pulled Y' ... You would have a think about that and then decide what , if anything you are going to do.

You'd be looking to probably at least match his move , and you'd also be thinking about any tribs that feed into the reach above you , what the rainfall has been like over their catchment ( as well as the Thames ) and what is likely to be coming out of them. You'd also be thinking about how much abstraction is raking place on your reach ( if any ) and taking that into account , and in the back of your mind you'd be allowing for what is going on further up the river ... Are they shutting in for example at the top end , and the peak is just passing middle thames now ...

If you were in the lower end of your target levels , and had a big overspill at your site and were feeling confident , you might leave it to build into the mid range of the targets , and it would level off once enough water was going over the spill. But more likely you'd be heading to the weir to make a move.

It's not an exact science and lots of it is local knowledge and experience. It's not something you can programme into a computer and let it get on with it really ( or hasn't been so far ). During the day and out of hours , the river is monitored by River Control who are in touch with the Teddington Duty Desk 24/7 and we will call out staff should levels rise or fall when the locks are unmanned ( night , lunch etc )

I don't want to tell you all our secrets though ;)
 
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Chris_d said:
Not sure I trust those sites, that is using the EA data yet for the gauge at my local lock it is reading differently and claims a more upto date reading!
Personaly unless you want readings from the last few weeks or months for a live reading I would only use the EA website.
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I've been watching my local lock and one of the gauges on the Windrush for a while and comparing them to the EA site now and then.
Gaugemap has been accurate compared to the EA site every time I've checked.

Follow the gauge you are interested in on twitter and the data goes to your feed twice a day :)
 
Our locals have been expressing their feelings about last years flooding at Yalding according to local TV.It would appear the Leigh barrier is the subject of their ire.
At a meeting the EA explained that the funding to sort the problem, which comes directly from the government, will only arrive in instalments over the next few years.
 
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teddington_lock said:
Weir gates are adjusted as necessary. You might be on the weir once a day , you might be on it ten times a day.

A lot depends on what the lock above you does , they may pass down a weir message saying that 'At X lock , I've just pulled Y' ... You would have a think about that and then decide what , if anything you are going to do.

You'd be looking to probably at least match his move , and you'd also be thinking about any tribs that feed into the reach above you , what the rainfall has been like over their catchment ( as well as the Thames ) and what is likely to be coming out of them. You'd also be thinking about how much abstraction is raking place on your reach ( if any ) and taking that into account , and in the back of your mind you'd be allowing for what is going on further up the river ... Are they shutting in for example at the top end , and the peak is just passing middle thames now ...

If you were in the lower end of your target levels , and had a big overspill at your site and were feeling confident , you might leave it to build into the mid range of the targets , and it would level off once enough water was going over the spill. But more likely you'd be heading to the weir to make a move.

It's not an exact science and lots of it is local knowledge and experience. It's not something you can programme into a computer and let it get on with it really ( or hasn't been so far ). During the day and out of hours , the river is monitored by River Control who are in touch with the Teddington Duty Desk 24/7 and we will call out staff should levels rise or fall when the locks are unmanned ( night , lunch etc )

I don't want to tell you all our secrets though ;)
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Many thanks for the info.

I am amazed its still controlled on a lock to lock basis and as you say from the knowledge and experience of the local lock keeper. I wrongly assumed it would have been controlled by a central control office, asking a particular lock to open or close their weir gates as necessary.

Very interesting, thanks :)
 
teddington_lock said:
Weir gates are adjusted as necessary. You might be on the weir once a day , you might be on it ten times a day.

A lot depends on what the lock above you does , they may pass down a weir message saying that 'At X lock , I've just pulled Y' ... You would have a think about that and then decide what , if anything you are going to do.

You'd be looking to probably at least match his move , and you'd also be thinking about any tribs that feed into the reach above you , what the rainfall has been like over their catchment ( as well as the Thames ) and what is likely to be coming out of them. You'd also be thinking about how much abstraction is raking place on your reach ( if any ) and taking that into account , and in the back of your mind you'd be allowing for what is going on further up the river ... Are they shutting in for example at the top end , and the peak is just passing middle thames now ...

If you were in the lower end of your target levels , and had a big overspill at your site and were feeling confident , you might leave it to build into the mid range of the targets , and it would level off once enough water was going over the spill. But more likely you'd be heading to the weir to make a move.

It's not an exact science and lots of it is local knowledge and experience. It's not something you can programme into a computer and let it get on with it really ( or hasn't been so far ). During the day and out of hours , the river is monitored by River Control who are in touch with the Teddington Duty Desk 24/7 and we will call out staff should levels rise or fall when the locks are unmanned ( night , lunch etc )

I don't want to tell you all our secrets though ;)
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So how could the EA even possibly consider getting rid of lock keepers if you are that 'hands on'? Perhaps they'll have someone driving up and down the river trying to operate all the weirs...

Or I am I incorrect thinking that lock keepers days are numbered?
 
GAJ52 said:
Many thanks for the info.

I am amazed its still controlled on a lock to lock basis and as you say from the knowledge and experience of the local lock keeper. I wrongly assumed it would have been controlled by a central control office, asking a particular lock to open or close their weir gates as necessary.

Very interesting, thanks :)
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We're not just button pushers ;)

Sadly , this seems to be a common misconception. Lock keepers aren't just simple people who couldn't get a job anywhere else. All are 'river people' with a love and an in depth knowledge of the river , how it works and all are experts on their particular reach , it's features , foibles and how to best control it.
 
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teddington_lock said:
All are 'river people' with a love and an in depth knowledge of the river , how it works and all are experts on their particular reach , it's features , foibles and how to best control it.
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Can you make sure your Lords and Masters know this! And then make sure that their Lords and Masters (ie the politicians) know it as well - then we might, just might, get some common sense coming into play - or is that asking too much in this day and age??!!
 
Cashbuyer said:
So how could the EA even possibly consider getting rid of lock keepers if you are that 'hands on'? Perhaps they'll have someone driving up and down the river trying to operate all the weirs...

Or I am I incorrect thinking that lock keepers days are numbered?
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I think I am right in saying that it has only ever considered cutting down on "Lockkeepers" not "Weirkeepers", currently they wear two caps for navigation and weir control.
If only weirs are required to be controlled someone is not required there 24/7 but could run around adjusting weirs as neccesary.
 
Chris_d said:
If only weirs are required to be controlled someone is not required there 24/7 but could run around adjusting weirs as neccesary.
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Really ? You think that would work ? The lock staff make it work to an extent , manning two or three weirs during times of low staffing , but any more than that would be extremely difficult indeed.
 
teddington_lock said:
Really ? You think that would work ? The lock staff make it work to an extent , manning two or three weirs during times of low staffing , but any more than that would be extremely difficult indeed.
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I wasn't proposing it or recommending it, that just appeared to be part of the thinking when cutting lockkeepers was proposed.
But just to play devils advocate assuming there was a minimum staff on hand to run up and down the entire river adjusting weirs why wouldn't it work? And if there was sufficent investment why
couldn't all weirs be motorised and controlled centrally. Could you imagine trying to control electricity or gas supply manualy with people rushing around flicking switches and adjusting valves, I know these are not questions poeple want to hear but its the sort of thing asked by non river people with power.
 
I can't get drawn into a debate on this for obvious reasons , but let's just say that there are a LOT of variables concerning managing the river.

If there was an unlimited pot of money , perhaps it could be done , but it's not likely.
 
Chris_d said:
And if there was sufficent investment ...........
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As soon as you mentioned that you know it's never going to happen.

TL is right, if there was an unlimited pot of money it could be done. But the numbers simply wouldn't stand up. Apart from the initial investment, the ongoing annual service and maintenance costs would be huge and just don't make economic sense. The current system is the best value-for-money option by far.
 
Wavey said:
As soon as you mentioned that you know it's never going to happen.
TL is right, if there was an unlimited pot of money it could be done. But the numbers simply wouldn't stand up. Apart from the initial investment, the ongoing annual service and maintenance costs would be huge and just don't make economic sense. The current system is the best value-for-money option by far.
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There is one issue that could alter the whole approach to river management and provide a huge boost in funding and that is flood control. Last winters disastrous floods really was a wake up call to the need for much better flood control resources along the Thames Valley and resulted in a whole pot of money being made available in the short term. The extension of the Jubilee River further downstream is now very much back on the agenda although government funding appears to be conditional on local authority and business also making substantial contributions.
 
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