How much should plumbing in a holding tank system cost?

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I've got an estimate for plumbing in a holding tank system on a 53ft Ferretti which I think is extremely over the top. Considering that the grp tank itself is already moulded into the bilges, all that needs doing is to fit a macerator pump with thru hull outlet, plumb in diverter valves and pipework for 2 heads only, fit a level sensor and wire it all into pre-prepared switches and indicator lights on the electrical control panel. What do you think that should cost?
 
Deleted User said:
I've got an estimate for plumbing in a holding tank system on a 53ft Ferretti which I think is extremely over the top. Considering that the grp tank itself is already moulded into the bilges, all that needs doing is to fit a macerator pump with thru hull outlet, plumb in diverter valves and pipework for 2 heads only, fit a level sensor and wire it all into pre-prepared switches and indicator lights on the electrical control panel. What do you think that should cost?
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Unless someone comes up with a reason why this shouldnt be done I suggest you spec the outlet to be at water line level, my bayliner had this towards the rear, while under way the tank was emptied under the water line with added natural suction , it worked well and allows your job to be completed while in the water (no lift out fees),saves a seacock which you have to keep opening and closing too.

Fittings (no seacocks) £150
macarator £150
Level sensor £110

take 4 hours but quote 8 hours @ £50

£810 + 17.5%

£950

if you add an underwater seacock add lift/chock off relaunch

total getting on for £2k ????
 
DAKA said:
Unless someone comes up with a reason why this shouldnt be done I suggest you spec the outlet to be at water line level, my bayliner had this towards the rear, while under way the tank was emptied under the water line with added natural suction , it worked well and allows your job to be completed while in the water (no lift out fees),saves a seacock which you have to keep opening and closing too.

Fittings (no seacocks) £150
macarator £150
Level sensor £110

take 4 hours but quote 8 hours @ £50

£810 + 17.5%

£950

if you add an underwater seacock add lift/chock off relaunch

total getting on for £2k ????
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Thats about what I thought it would cost but I've been quoted €6900 (Euros)!!!
Yes I agree about the waterline discharge but mainly because it saves having yet another hole in the boat in the bottom of the boat and there's less likelihood of seawater being siphoned back into the tank. I still think you need a seacock and anti syphon loop as well just in case
 
Deleted User said:
Thats about what I thought it would cost but I've been quoted €6900 (Euros)!!!
Yes I agree about the waterline discharge but mainly because it saves having yet another hole in the boat in the bottom of the boat and there's less likelihood of seawater being siphoned back into the tank. I still think you need a seacock and anti syphon loop as well just in case
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Y Diverter valve at each heads, with a pipe leading off to the holding tank. Tank will need a vent. A gauge is a good idea too. Even if the heads are electric, with macerator pumps, i'd still use a macerator pump to empty the tank. Why not then run a pipe to the closest heads and put a Y valve there, pump out of the existing outlet. No more holes. You could fit the macerator switch next to it, for convenience.

If you did fit an extra through hull, it would obviously need a vented loop. As for fitting above the water line without a seacock, not sure if you'd get a smell problem ?

Depending upon you cruising circumstances, might be worth considering a deck pump out fitting too ?
 
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Mike, I did a similar job on my boat in 2003, just more complicated, because there wasn't even the tank.
And I changed both bowls with brand new Tecma.
All for much less than that, though I can't remember exactly how much, and the whole system is working perfectly since then.
The man who did the job was a small local artisan, based exactly in your new location. I'm not sure if he speaks English though, 'cause in that area German is way more common as a 2nd language.
Anyway, I can pm you his details if you're interested.

PS: the macerator pump to empty the tank is the same fitted inside the Tecma bowls, and the plumbing was made with the Y valve as PG suggested, with no additional thru hull.
 
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Deleted User said:
I've got an estimate for plumbing in a holding tank system on a 53ft Ferretti which I think is extremely over the top. Considering that the grp tank itself is already moulded into the bilges, all that needs doing is to fit a macerator pump with thru hull outlet, plumb in diverter valves and pipework for 2 heads only, fit a level sensor and wire it all into pre-prepared switches and indicator lights on the electrical control panel. What do you think that should cost?
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I would have thought 2300 with no lift out, but a lift and block off adds 1500. Rememeber the pump will be 400eu+, because they'll be speccing a rolls royce pump

Ref the discharge pipe, I never use antisyphon loops. Doing that adds several metres of smelly pipe. I take the discharge as straight as possible to the hull seacock, with shortest pipe runs. Then fit an electric seacock just inside the manual one, and a NR valve if you wish

And I would use a diaphragm pump not a macerator, cos they can be run dry. The tecmas will already have done enough macerating
 
jfm said:
I would use a diaphragm pump not a macerator, cos they can be run dry.
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Fwiw, I gave a call directly to Tecma specifically on this matter, when the man who did the job on my boat suggested the same pump for the tank. They confirmed that their pump was tried, tested and guaranteed also for such application.
 
MapisM said:
Fwiw, I gave a call directly to Tecma specifically on this matter, when the man who did the job on my boat suggested the same pump for the tank. They confirmed that their pump was tried, tested and guaranteed also for such application.
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Fair enough. I wouldn't naturally fit such a pump becuase it is a much weaker self-primer than a diaphragm pump. The tecma pump is simply a centrifugal pump with fixed s/s macerator blades around the inlet duct (I know them intimately!). I'd expect it to self prime to less than a metre. When installed in a tecma wc, it is fed from above and doesn't have to self prime at all. But sure, if it is able to self prime over many years to the height that Deleted User's installation needs, then of course it is good to use. I'd just double-check the spec, becuase it cannot sensibly be "tried, tested and guaranteed" without any reference to a self-prime head (whereas in contrast any diaphragm pump will easily be good for 5m + head, so you hardly need to check them)
 
mjf said:
Congrats Deleted User you done it then?
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No, not quite yet. The deal is that I get my existing 46 from Sardinia to Croatia where the p/x for the 53 will be done. I decided not to truck the 46 across Italy because once the dismantling of the flybridge and putting it back together was done plus the cost of the freight licence was added to the truck cost itself, the total cost was huge. So I decided to get it delivered by sea using a skipper and, as we speak, she's somewhere between Sicily and the heel of Italy.
With regard to the 53, both the broker and I are gobsmacked that somebody could spend €1m+ on a new 53 in 2002 (I've seen the invoice) and not fit a holding tank system. A sternthruster and Sat TV, yes but a black water system, no. Odd priorities. Btw I'm not paying anywhere near that for the 53, in fact an awful lot less. It's frightening how much new boats depreciate. Somebody shoot me if I ever say I'm going to buy a new boat
 
Yes I agree esp. as the tank was built in and 'just' needs commissioning.

Shameful frankly.

Good luck with the new enterprise BTW.

What have you done on the berthing situation. Oddly I had a e mail overnight from Porto Montenegro (but i still think its a bit fierce vs SoF which is established after all said and done).
 
jfm said:
Fair enough. I wouldn't naturally fit such a pump becuase it is a much weaker self-primer than a diaphragm pump. The tecma pump is simply a centrifugal pump with fixed s/s macerator blades around the inlet duct (I know them intimately!). I'd expect it to self prime to less than a metre. When installed in a tecma wc, it is fed from above and doesn't have to self prime at all. But sure, if it is able to self prime over many years to the height that Deleted User's installation needs, then of course it is good to use. I'd just double-check the spec, becuase it cannot sensibly be "tried, tested and guaranteed" without any reference to a self-prime head (whereas in contrast any diaphragm pump will easily be good for 5m + head, so you hardly need to check them)
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The pump that Ferretti use is the Eco MV 44 here http://www.depcopump.com/datasheets/G%20-%20R%20Gianneschi/g-r%20brochure.pdf which is a solids handling screw pump. I have certainly run that dry on many occasions, mainly because Ferretti don't fit a tank empty sensor in their holding tanks.
I agree with you; I would be hesitant to use a centrifugal pump in such a critical location as a holding tank discharge pump. A failed unit would be a potential holiday breaker for us
 
MapisM said:
Mike, I did a similar job on my boat in 2003, just more complicated, because there wasn't even the tank.
And I changed both bowls with brand new Tecma.
All for much less than that, though I can't remember exactly how much, and the whole system is working perfectly since then.
The man who did the job was a small local artisan, based exactly in your new location. I'm not sure if he speaks English though, 'cause in that area German is way more common as a 2nd language.
Anyway, I can pm you his details if you're interested.

PS: the macerator pump to empty the tank is the same fitted inside the Tecma bowls, and the plumbing was made with the Y valve as PG suggested, with no additional thru hull.
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Mapism, thanks, yes I would appreciate the contact. The plan was to use the local Ferretti agent for guardiennage and maintenance but he's rapidly pricing himself out of my market. I speak a little German so maybe we can understand each other
 
jfm said:
it cannot sensibly be "tried, tested and guaranteed" without any reference to a self-prime head
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Actually, as I recall, they didn't even ask. Probably they assumed that when used to discharge the holding tank, also the pump is fitted in the bilge, so with very low self-prime head anyway.
But I must say that I didn't ask either, 'cause the pump was to be fitted at the same height as the tank in my boat. My main concern was the occasional dry running, and in that respect they were very confident that it could take it.
 
MapisM said:
Hopefully hlb is not reading this. You'd go straight in his ignore list for good! :D
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It's useless anyway. When I seatrialled the boat, I forgot that it was there and never tried it. I can't really understand why you should need it on a twin engined boat
 
mjf said:
Yes I agree esp. as the tank was built in and 'just' needs commissioning.

Shameful frankly.

Good luck with the new enterprise BTW.

What have you done on the berthing situation. Oddly I had a e mail overnight from Porto Montenegro (but i still think its a bit fierce vs SoF which is established after all said and done).
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If it all goes through, the plan is to base the 53 in Novigrad in Istria (northern Croatia) initially. I travel quite regularly to NE Italy on business so it would be convenient to drive across the border to the boat in a couple of hours. That's also where the local Ferretti dealer is based who is selling me the boat so it's convenient for him to sort out any probs.
Later, I might move the boat further south, perhaps around Split. The Croatian coastline and the Dalmatian islands are a huge cruising playground which should keep me amused for a few seasons.
Despite the fact that Croatia can be as hellish as any other Med area in high summer, the berthing costs are still far less than the W Med. I will be paying about €8000 pa for the 53 in Novigrad and AFAIK, many marinas further south charge about the same
 
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