how fast at night

[BrendanS]

Re: One word comes to mind, Brendan..

You still haven't answered the question - what have I suggested that is reckless? Tell me, was my RYA Advanced Level instructor reckless in taking me out at 25knts in the dark in perfect visibility. Are my club reckless in organising night exercise training, where we often do over 20+ knts in good visibility, and they are extremely concerned about safety. I entioned passage planning to keep clear of areas where I know there are bouys (leaving aside the crazy notion that bouys that are underwater and can't be seen are more dangerous at night than day - even though they can't be seen in daylight either). So, exactly what have I done that is reckless??

The windscreen thing was simply down to loose screws - ask Jon, he spent part of a trip from Northney screwing them back in because they were loose - a problem with small self tappers in grp. I should have had them repaired but didn't, and they came even looser on a long trip. Nothing to do with 'thrashing' the boat. and not life threatening as people sometimes seem to portray. People seem to like to pick up little points and beat them up over it at a later date totally out of context. People will simply stop telling tales of their adventures if that happens all the time.

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[ArthurWood]

Re: One word comes to mind, Brendan..

I seem to have touched a nerve. OK, reckless might be an over-characterization, but I note that few on this thread agree with you re speed at night and I am nowhere near as experienced as some of them are. If you use "dark" and "perfect visibility" in the same context, I find that worrying as they seem to be contradictions to me, but I've been away from good English for too long and my Latin is 50 years rusty/forums/images/icons/smile.gif.



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[BrendanS]

Re: One word comes to mind, Brendan..

Perfect visibility as in no mist,or spray, totally clear conditions. If the sea state is slight, then there is more than enough ambient light around most parts of the coast to be able to see very well.

I wouldn't consider the danger of hitting anything on a well planned route to be much greater than it would be during the day. By well planned route I mean avoiding unmarked bouys and such like. That leaves submerged articles, which are just as difficult to see during the day, and unlit boats. Boats are big enough to see if you are observant.

The risk of hitting things is probably greater somewhere busy like the Solent, but this is mitigated by the fact that after about 19:00 in the evening, the Solent usually becomes mirror calm, which make it very easy to read the water ahead, and see obstructions, and there are very few vessels out at night. Out in open sea, the chances of hitting anything are reduced dramatically by avoiding the routes that everyone else used (waymark between bouys etc)

I'd also take other things into account - such as leaving Cowes after the fireworks when there are hundreds of boats on the water.

However, all of this still avoids the point that you can see quite well in the dark if you take precautions to preserve night vision. If I think I can't see well enough ahead, I'd slow down, exactly as during the day.

It also doesn't explain why if you do see other powerboats out at night, away from harbours and the like, and the conditions are good, they are invariably up at planing speed - are they all wrong?

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[Oldhand]

Re: One word comes to mind, Brendan..

<the Solent usually becomes mirror calm>

That until you go dashing around at 20kts and cover it with your wake so its not mirror calm for anyone else...

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[ArthurWood]

Re: One word comes to mind, Brendan..

I bow to your greater experience, but let's agree to disagree. Besides, I can't type as well as you/forums/images/icons/smile.gif

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[BrendanS]

Re: One word comes to mind, Brendan..

So I should drop down to 10knts and cause a wake 4 times as big? As a side note, if you come across wake, it's a great sign that someone else is out, and often you can work out the heading

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[Oldhand]

Re: One word comes to mind, Brendan..

Or 5kts and 4 times smaller? I'm not interested in the direction of your wake if you are doing 20kts or 10kts in calm conditions, it will knock any wind out of my sails whatever direction you are going in and I am unlikely to catch up with you!

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[BrendanS]

Re: One word comes to mind, Brendan..

In wind free conditions in the Solent in the evening, there is no sailing to speak of. The raggies have either gone home already or are motoring.

Errm, by the way, I'm one of the considerate gits who go way out of my way to avoid anyone sailing in light airs. However in mirror calm conditions, the wake is going to spread a long way anyway, so you'll always get a few ripples from my passing. No matter what the speed.

Why the antagonism?

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[boatless]

Re: One word comes to mind, Brendan..

Not again, surely.

If you haven't spotted it, Brendan is actually a closet yachter, just hasn't come to terms with it yet.

Can we limit the sail/power war to one full blown attack per month?

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[MapisM]

Tell us, ...

...what is your secret to see through the complete darkness?
I mean, we all know that there are nights in which the visibility can be even better than in some days of bad weather.
But the initial post of this thread stated: "Pitch black driving on gps and radar".
I guess that the "pitch black" assumption means absolutely zero light. Which can, and does happen.
Without any moonlight, and a cloudy sky covering the stars, you can still have miles of theorical horizontal visibility, without being able to see whether there is still water or not around your hull, unless you use a torch to check that!
In these conditions, you are really forced to trust only the gps and the radar. But still, you might find buoys or other floating objects, with no own light, and which are not reflected by the radar.
In such environment, the reason for slowing down is NOT to avoid the obstacle, because you would hit it both at 5 and at 30 knots. There is simply no way to avoid that, because neither your instruments nor your eyes can see it.
On the other hand, a boat has better chances to stay afloat after hitting anything at 5 rather than 30 knots.
This is - IMHO of course - the real reason for slowing down in pitch black nights: just to limit the risk of sinking.

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[BrendanS]

Re: Tell us, ...

If I needed radar to see where I was going I either wouldn't be out there, or would be poodling along at displacement speed. Pitch black means different things to different people. What I disagree with, is that you cannot go out at night safely at planing speed.

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[Gludy]

Re: Tell us, ...

I have to agree with Brendan ... if you cannot see then there are no circumstances in which you should be travelling at planing speed and anyone who does that is wrong.

As the original question states - the radar/plotter is the means of navigation - you have no idea what floating obstacles are in the water. In the Bristol channel I have to take avoiding action to avoid floating obstacles on every trip I make.

If I hit one at 5 knots that is a lot better than hitting it at 25 knots.

I have been caight in fog where I could not see my bow - I came back at 5 knots glued to my radar and plotter.

<hr width=100% size=1>Paul

 

[duncan]

Re: Tell us, ...

So we finally manage to clarify the points being made...........which are triggered by and piggybacking the original thread rather than directly addressed to it's question.
(1) Night doesn't mean you can't see
(2) Flat calm conditions are a greater factor in seeing pots and floating objects that daylight per se - and in fact certain low light conditions are optimum for this specific issue.
(3) Sometimes you just won't see a hazard (submerged, pitch black, you looked the other way!) and the lower the speed you are doing the less likely you are to damage your craft and or it's occupants (I add this because getting the leg caught in a pot rope and the result fast stop and it's impact on the crew adn myself concern me as much as actually damaging the leg - even if it results in the boat sinking!)
(4) Southampton water isn't in most peoples definitions of open water

Outstanding action point (for me) is to check if canoes show up clearly on my rader /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

Everyone happy?

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[Gludy]

Re: Tell us, ...

I think that about sums it up.

In flat calm conditions radar can pick up lobster pots, dolphins etc/ I had this happen on the way to Padstow in total flay calm last year.
So a canoe should be picked up.

Mind you, its 1 50 inch open array but it was picking up everything.


<hr width=100% size=1>Paul

 

[milltech]

Umm, I was out at night in the channel a few weeks ago and found it a bit nervy, and this is strange because I've been across that bit of water at night more times than you can shake a stick at. I think it was because the weather made it uncomfortable and it had been maybe three years since the last time.

I WILL NOT arrive anywhere in the dark unless I know it really well. I know Portsmouth Harbour well, I was berthed there for two years, but I wouldn't come into Portsmouth from the Nab in the dark, I'm just not good enough and the number of lights confuses me. Poole is easier, but I prefer to navigate within my limitations.

I think the answer therefore is, like most things, practice, practice and practice.

<hr width=100% size=1>John
http://www.on-line-marine.com

 

[Gludy]

"I WILL NOT arrive anywhere in the dark unless I know it really well."

That should be added to the list ... its just simply a golden rule.


<hr width=100% size=1>Paul

 

[milltech]

I think also that in not wanting to run into moving things the sailing fraternity have it easier in this respect, that we have one sense missing. They can sit in the cockpit and hear us coming, we just have to look for the lights. Add light to sound and identification becomes easier.

<hr width=100% size=1>John
http://www.on-line-marine.com

 

[Oldhand]

Re: One word comes to mind, Brendan..

None as you say you are a considerate git!

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[BrendanS]

Re: Tell us, ...

I'm suprised more haven't contributed to this thread. There are many here who go out at night, and probably have tales to tell, both of easy trips and scary experiences.

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[hlb]

Re: Tell us, ...

Ok OK then. If out at night dont steer from down stairs, you cant see a bloody thing, where as upstairs you can see every thing. Oh yes, and dont mistake car tail lights for port hand buoys!!

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