How far does typical purse seine gear extend?

[jbweston]

Does anyone know how large is the typical purse seine net found in the English Channel or Western Approaches? And do the purse seiners normally light their nets at night?

Ten days ago I was on my way across from Falmouth to Aber Wrac'h when I saw a fishing boat showing the two flashing yellow lights allowed in the ColRegs when a purse seiner is hampered by her gear. It was very dark but clear. I couldn't see any sign of lights from dans or floats.

The boat was moving around flashing merrily, but I hadn't got the foggiest how far her gear extended and in what direction. So I just kept very well clear.

Anyone got any idea?

It did occur to me that I couldn't see any lit floats because she might not have had her gear out at all and was just showing the yellow lights to keep passing traffic amused.

 

[jimbaerselman]

Sorry, doesn't answer your Q, but he may not have been a purse seiner.

If this was a lone fisherman, he was probably showing an illegal (by colreg definition) flashing yellow light. The flashing light is a provision for purse seiners working in pairs to indicate that a net is joining the two vessels. Unless he was an air cushion fisherman!

Part of an extending habit for vessels to add 'attention getting' lights without regard to colreg requirements?

 

[jbweston]

Jim,

Thanks for your very prompt response.

You may be right but Annex II para 3 doesn't actually mention two vessels working as a pair. It says 'Vessels engaged in fishing with purse seine gear may exhibit two yellow lights . . . These lights may be exhibited only when the vessel is hampered by its fishing gear.'

I don't know if as a matter of fishing technicality, purse seiners work in pairs. But under the ColRegs, a single purse seiner hampered by her gear may show the lights.

By the way it was definitely the two lights one above the other, flashing alternately, not a single yellow flashing light. So it wasn't an illegal light per se - even though I quite agree the boat might or might not have been right to be showing it.

 

[wotayottie]

I think they can work singly using a net that is up to one km long. The idea seems to be a net hanging below a lot of surface buoys and with a bottom that can be drawn tight. The fishing boat circles a shoal pulling the net behind, tightens the bottom and hauls the shoal aboard. There is some suggestion that a second small boat can be at the other end of the net.

As has already been said, most likely illegal lights. Came across the same thing crossing \Biscay when almost all the Spanish fleet as I appraoched Bilbao had flashing yellows.

I'm going to see if I can get a flashing blue - for international waters only, you understand. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Robin]

This fishing boat is a regular and we have seen him every year going to S. Brittany from in our case Dartmouth. Last year we passed quite close, not deliberately but because once we had (with binos) finally decided which was his front and back from the nav lights obliterated by his deck lights,and altered to pass clear astern, he then turned 180 and came back at us. We we were sailing and hiiting over 10kts in the surfs with a F7 on a broad reach so not easy to make alterations and I was alone on deck too with SWMBO asleep.

I think he uses the flashing yellow because of where he fishes, always close to the lanes to and from Ushant TSS, rather than what he is doing. A real PITA.

 

[RestlessL]

A typical purse seine net will have a circumference of 300-500m, and a depth of 70-100m (which is about the size of St Pauls). The gear is shot in a circle round the shoal of fish (herring or mackerel), sometimes by 2 boats moving against the wind, or by a single, larger boat with a more efficient triplex roller block to wind the gear in. The larger boats are common off NE Scotland, but will travel furthur to follow the shoals.

There is also the (Danish) Seine, common in the North Sea. The net is a sac with long wings and long (up to 1km) tow line at each end. A single, smaller boat will shoot the net from an anchored buoy to which the end of one tow line is attached, and pay the net out in a wide curve or triangle (1-3km), returning to the start from where they will haul in the net. These boats can normally be recognised by the number of large dan-bouys they carry, and they will make sudden course alterations as they shoot the net.

In both cases, the best advice is to keep clear.

 

[fishermantwo]

[ QUOTE ]
A typical purse seine net will have a circumference of 300-500m, and a depth of 70-100m (which is about the size of St Pauls). The gear is shot in a circle round the shoal of fish (herring or mackerel), sometimes by 2 boats moving against the wind, or by a single, larger boat with a more efficient triplex roller block to wind the gear in. The larger boats are common off NE Scotland, but will travel furthur to follow the shoals.

There is also the (Danish) Seine, common in the North Sea. The net is a sac with long wings and long (up to 1km) tow line at each end. A single, smaller boat will shoot the net from an anchored buoy to which the end of one tow line is attached, and pay the net out in a wide curve or triangle (1-3km), returning to the start from where they will haul in the net. These boats can normally be recognised by the number of large dan-bouys they carry, and they will make sudden course alterations as they shoot the net.

In both cases, the best advice is to keep clear.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty good answer. There are other variations. I use the light attracting dinghy and shoot the purse seine around that.

Your advice to keep clear though is spot on. He may have even finished his shot but you should keep clear.

 

[jbweston]

Many thanks all.

I had every intention of keeping well clear but didn't know how far 'well' was! I now understand better what gear these guys are using and how far it extends.

Always assuming a boat with the yellow lights is actually purse seining, not just using them for decoration . . .

 

[RestlessL]

[ QUOTE ]
These boats can normally be recognised by the number of large dan-bouys they carry

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry - I was wrong in that point - the North Sea Seiners can be recognised by the very large marker bouys, usually carried on the wheelhouse roof.

The key point about Seiners is the sudden changes in direction they will make, unlike conventional trawlers which tend to move slowly in a fixed direction when fishing.

 

[fisherman]

Please don't blame the fishermen entirely for using the orange beacons. I have been nearly run down and then had the ship come back when I reported him to the CG. You would be amazed at how difficult it is to get away from a ship bearing down on you while fishing and it's best not to let them get any where near.

 

[Robin]

Where this one fishes he has to be crazy and in his shoes I might do the same or more! He is usually in or very close to the lanes extending from Ushant TSS and a constant stream of traffic. My beef isn't the yellow light but that his deck lights are so bright and even seem to point outwards, that his port and starboard lts are invisible until you are right up by him. In my view that is counter productive in that he makes himself very visible but at the same time impossible to see which way he is pointing, a completely unpredictable player - which way to go to miss him.

We will probably see him again on Monday night....

 

[fisherman]

Yes, agreed, and we often have lights directed overboard if that's where it's all happening. I may suddenly set off in any direction in the course of my work, and if I have seen you I will wait til you've gone clear before I do, but sometimes I may start the proceedings and then find you nearby, and the gear over the side may limit my options, eg I can't turn to port at all. Not wanting to be a primadonna, but you are best well out of the way.

'.......until you are right up by him.......' is not the place to be.

 

[Robin]

We do appreciate your problems and will do our best to keep clear of course. This one boat however seems to have an on board high powered magnet that is attracted to fibreglass instead of steel! Last year I thought originally that our course was taking us a couple of miles west of him as we headed south, then he also heads west seemingly to intercept us. We altered then to pass east of him by about half a mile, but we are surfing at over 10kts in the gusts and not wanting to gybe unintentionally that wasn't easy, then yipee back he comes and does a 180 turn straight at us! I will be really careful this year about giving him a wide berth.