How do you feel about....(NB)

[cloudnine]

...this Claire Short business.? Supposing she is telling the truth and Tony, well Tony is doing a Tony, and telling us nothing believable as usual (damn good politician when you think about, if you can stomach that sort of thing!!) .
Anyway, are you more concerned about the affrontary to the UN and probably every other foreign diplomat in the world OR are you pleased our boys at MI6 are "looking after our interests" and couldn't care less about integrity or what anyone or any law thinks about it?
I don't normally do religion or politics as I prefer less dangerous vices (use your imagination boys and girls!!!) - but this one is interesting.
Brian

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[jimi]

Personally I think we have an extremely grave constitutional situation and are on the verge of becoming a totalitarian state. Think about it.

No effective constitutional checks or balances
Executive control of media,judiciary.
Increase in secret police
Person centred executive .. whatever happened to cabinet government?
Becoming international pariahs
Communication by propaganda .. otherwise known as spin.




<hr width=100% size=1>.. whit way roon should it be again ..

 

[l'escargot]

Why all the surprise and outrage, everyone's security service bugs everyone else. It's been that way since the cold war. The only rule was not to get caught. No one ever expected to get grassed by one of their own side (unless they did the honorable thing and defected). Shows what an unprincipled shower of politicians we have got at the moment - she's only done it out of revenge not through any sense of integrity, otherwise she would have threatened to let the cat out of the bag at the time and stopped it ever happening.

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[poter]

Reall could\'nt care less

let them fight it out or even better a revolution
Far Far more important than the squabbles between ex-ministers & Tone is that
they are taxing us into oblivion ... now the taxman is thinking of taking the unearned income tax (tax on rents ...say) & putting it on your paye?
And another one - light dues!

I really am thinking 'Thats it lets go' I know its not just me, many other forumites have expressed similar opinions.

more scotch..........

ahhhhh!!

hey its snowin here... west dorset

poter.

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[longjohnsilver]

Re: Reall could\'nt care less

So when are you moving your boat? You've only got a few days left!

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[jimi]

Re: Reall could\'nt care less

I'b be off tomorrow if it were'nt for some elderly relatives. I hate the way this country is going.. and I'm not an extremist .. I'm an Ian MacLeod / Edward Heath sort of tory .. even voted for TB first time around ... never ever ever would I vote Labour again .. but the constitution does need overhauling.

Originally the HoC was set up as a check on the executive (HoL headed by the monarch). This position has slowly reversed and now the executive is in an unparalleled position of power compared to any other modern democracy.

<hr width=100% size=1>.. whit way roon should it be again ..

 

[cloudnine]

Re: Reall could\'nt care less

I couldn't agree more Jimi. Keep me posted on the crinklies and I'll join you!! Where do you fancy going. I am presuming, of course, you will still have blood (or beer) flowing thru' your veins after the missus has finished with you.


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[poter]

Re: Reall could\'nt care less

Ahh ha .... sorted that one I'm goin up the Cattewater to a small yard & shady is being craned out for a couple of weeks at 20 quid a week storage can then put on my new log transducer, give her a clean and then back in say around middle of March & round to EXE.

brilliant.


poter.



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[longjohnsilver]

Re: Reall could\'nt care less

Shouldn't talk about SWMBO in that way, elderly relatives!

So it's your fault Tony and his cronies got in in the first place. Shame on you, may your rudder continue to drop.

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[tcm]

yes i agree with l'escargot.

Also, whether or not its' right or not right to have bugged the UN.... as a result of her revelations, Clare Short has queered the pitch for any future covert operations when it really WOULD be in the national interest to eavesdrop. So she's confirmed herself as simply idealistically naive, rather like most lefties.

I liked the way TB first referred to Clare Shorts statements as "irresponsible" and later in the same briefing referred to them as "revelations"

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[jimi]

Would normally agree with you. But as this is within the context of deception on a grand scale by the executive of this country, I applaud Clare Short's bravery and ethical stance on the totallity of the issue.

<hr width=100% size=1>.. whit way roon should it be again ..

 

[Magic_Sailor]

At a pragmatic level - then yes, self interest is everything.

However, this way madness lies. Our problem is that we no longer believe anyone. And I do mean anyone. We distrust our motives. We question our morals.

Pragmatism is leading us into a world of individuals pursuing personal greed. No-one sees themselves as part of society anymore. Fat cats are ripping people off and we (the multitude) are all feeling more and more powerless. (My children don't vote - "there's no point is there").

It definitely hasn't always been like that. Before the "no such thing as society - only individuals" comment, by the awful Snatcher, people did care more, neighbours did look after one another - words could be trusted.

We should be arguing a policy to get back to that position of trust. The UN's intention (at least) was to bring people together - acts of this sort completely nullify it's purpose.

Magic

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://practical-business.co.uk>Click for website!</A>

 

[Magic_Sailor]

PS

If I sound pissed off....I am.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://practical-business.co.uk>Click for website!</A>

 

[l'escargot]

Silence the Monarchy
Silence the Lord's
Silence the civil service
Politicise the head of the police forces
Silence the people with "political correctness"

then do as you please as there is no one left to fight against you.

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[Robin]

You forgot the BBC

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[Badger]

Self Indulgent Claire Short

Totally agree with L'Escargot. Claire Short remember actually voted in support of the war and has betrayed not only the people who protect this country, but also her collective cabinet responsibility. There would appear to be ample ground for her to be prosecuted under the Official Secrets Act. It is also worth pointing out that her outburst on the radio ensured that the announcement of a new multinational initiative to address Africa's chronic social and economic problems was all but ignored at yesterday's monthly prime ministerial press conference.For someone who poses as a champion of the impoverished populations of the Third World, I wonder if she is proud of that particular consequence of her disloyalty.



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[penfold]

Anybody who thinks 'we' don't do this kind of thing is being pretty naive, and even more naive if they think Clare Short's outburst will stop it. The most worrying aspect to me is that the UN wallahs don't seem to have heard of encryption or scrambling.

GCHQ and the NSA and their respective predecessors have been blythely listening in to all and sundry since before WWII. both have always had close relationships with their respective national comms companies, like AT&T, Cable&Wireless and BT. The development of suitable computers in the 70s and 80s allowed them to automate many routine surveillance tasks. The use of voice and keyword recognition software means you don't actually need anyone listening all the time. Microwave satellite and terrestrial links mean you don't need a physical link to the phone network anymore, just a suitable dish placed in the side-lobes of the transmission.

Phone calls with recognised voices(like Kofi Annan's?) or particular words are recorded and passed to analysts. The principal problem with this form of espionage is having enough analysts; the sheer volume of raw data this system will produce is hard to deal with. How the intelligence services are ever going to cope with analysing E-mail beats me.

Cheers,
a weary cynic.

<hr width=100% size=1>Why'd he call me shortie?
Because you're small,...small,...S, M, all.

 

[tcm]

Re: PS

I don't disagree with your pissed-offness (?) and i (previously) felt stronger about the pragmatism in this case i spose.

I think that 10 years ago (choose your own amount of time - i'm a bit more of a Mrs T fan who at least ensured that uk isn't like france at the moment where the 35 hour weeks is sposed to "create" jobs and even the UNEMPLOYED went on strike last year...) ......where was i ? -oh yes, 10 or so years ago someone would be proud if their kids wanted to be politicians or prime minister - whereas these day we'd try to put them off or at least not say so in public! Whci hpretty much validates your comments in a roundabout way.



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[Chris_Robb]

<Our problem is that we no longer believe anyone. >

Trouble is Tony Blair has created a situation where know one believes him any more. I was at a lunch with some senior MP's and their comment was that when a prime minister comes to teh commons and says we have no alternative but war - you have to accept that he has more facts than he can tell you about. What would happen today - if there really was a major threat facing the country - Tony comes to parliamnet saying Trust Me - will he get the backing of those MPs who now cannot trust what he says?

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[DeeGee]

Re: PS

From my encounters with the French, I get the impression of a more solidly 'us' society than UK, where everyone seems to go on about 'them'. The French pay more tax than us, have higher unemployment, but seem happier, and noone kicks the poo out of the French - they go their own way. Plus the food's better etc.

<hr width=100% size=1>Black Sugar - the sweetest of all