How do you decide when to 'go'?

[NPMR]

How do you decide when to \'go\'?

I have stood in awe as boats go out into what I regard as conditions that are 'too rough'. I've also seen some of them back later with bedding and oilies strewn across booms to dry out but mostly you don't see them again, so you don't know what happened.

So how do you decide?

My rules are:
6-8+: We ain't going
6 diminishing: we might do a downhill dash
0-5 depends on the wind and tide direction, compared to what we want to do.

SWMO says "it's my decision" as she dons oilies, lifejacket and lifeline, so no help there!

We've also set off when no-one else did - which is very worrying - what did they know that I didn't?

Thoughts?

 

[flaming]

Re: How do you decide when to \'go\'?

Beware of getting into the habbit of just going downwind in stronger breeze. If it all goes wrong, or you get to a lee shore and don't fancy the entrance, you're likely to have to go upwind. So make sure you know how to sail upwind in any conditions you go out in.
For me it depends more on the boat and crew than anything else. I'd take (and have taken) a race crew into the solent to race in a solid 7-8 in a 38 footer, but I wouldn't take a family in a 30 footer out. I'd have also thought twice about a channel crossing in those conditions.

But whenever I've been caught out, and found myself mid channel with a lot more wind than forecast I've always been pleasantly suprised by how well the boat copes.

 

[arTThur]

Re: How do you decide when to \'go\'?

NPMR,

Pretty much the same as you with some consideration for the trip ahead.

Normally if sailing for pleasure, we don't leave if there is a 6 in the forecast, knowing that they can be wrong either way of course; if going on a longer passage, then we would certainly think long and hard about bashing cross-channel into a 5 for example, but would probably think it OK if off-wind.

In the last 8 seasons, only ever got caught in a 7 by surprise once, so consider ourselves very lucky.

Some peeps think this is absurd and possibly shows signs of cowardice, but like you I have seen the remnants of setting off into heavy stuff - we do sail for pleasure after all!!

 

[Evadne]

Rule 1: ask SWMBO

I sail with my wife who has the absurd notion that we should only go sailing in order to enjoy ourselves, so if the forecast is for more than 20kts we tend to stay at home or in harbour. I don't mind an F5, the boat sails at her fastest in one with a reef and the No.1 jib, but she suffers from seasickness more than I do. Also, I've twice seen a forecast F5 turn out to be an F7 after all, once when returning across the channel, so I've got wary as I've got older.

 

[NPMR]

Re: How do you decide when to \'go\'?

To put it into context - I've seen 62kts on the anemometer, in the Med (Corsica to Antibes) for more than a couple of hours and it was just too damn scary! And that was on a 48 footer!

Our 27' disappears into the troughs quite easily, although she is a dry boat.

It's the slamming and banging that is hard to take!

 

[jimi]

Re: How do you decide when to \'go\'?

First of all, its not the wind but the seastate thats the issue. In sheltered waters such as the Solent I would'nt bother about wind and just go out in anything. In more exposed waters depends on fetch eg in S Coast waters anything with North in is OK as long as not going too far offshore (and by defi nition no lee shore) would'nt go out into exposed waters with fetch if a 6 is forecast (on basis its likely to be more). However if it is a 6 and forecast to decrease then would probably go out. Depends really on how I feel on the day and how strong the crew is.

 

[dralex]

Re: How do you decide when to \'go\'?

I find it really depends on the crew- if I'm doing family sailing with toddler, we tend to stick to gentle stuff in calmish seas as it's no fun for anybody if it gets rough or windy. I'm lucky to have a boat which I know I can handle alone in most weathers and one which will also make good headway upwind into a sea. I'll do passages up to about 24 hours with one other experienced person on board in most conditions, but would stay put if there were any gales forecast, but know the boat will handle it if I did get caught in a gale.

The boats will generally handle things given an appropriate sail area- it's how much discomfort the crew are willing to tolerate and still be enjoying it that changes things. Personally I like going out in a blow and once you have the boat settled and in the groove, it's a great feeling. It all depends on experience, crew, boat and confidence.

 

[KRG]

Re: How do you decide when to \'go\'?

There are many variables to consider: crew; wind direction; tides; coastline; what the weather has done for the preceding days; synoptics; boat gear; etc. etc.

If you are unsure then don't. When I bought my current boat I went out in calmish conditions and then gradually took on more until I got used to what she was like and how she sailed etc.

I think this really depends on what you want out of it, if you want a gentle cruise in the sunshine then that's your choice, remember, it's a past time for most of us and not a chest beating test of manhood.

 

[Guest]

Agree to a point ...

Bad weather inshore can in cases be worse than offshore ...

Shallow water ... we are talking such as Solent etc. - can in fact get pretty bad -being short and sharp waves - pounding and beating a boat .... the crew quickly tired out.
Offshore with the deeper water the waves and conditions can be longer and more manageable.

It seems opposite to human nature to steer away from shallow water - but there are times when it's advised - not only when its a lee shore.

As a "pleasure" boater - I am not into baeting myself to a pulp while boat bucks and rears itself to all the mayhem ... Downwind or up - I'm in port if possible ....

The wind strength can also be misleading ... sit on the beach in various winds and directions - look at the sea and note the "it looks ok - I'll go" and the "Fancy a pub dinner tonight ? or night in ?" where often the only difference is actually the direction of the wind and general state.

When in the UK - I am lucky ... my Holiday place is a quick walk from the beach on Hayling Island ... so I can look out to Nab tower and see the conditions first hand ... plus the forecast and then I decide. As to what wind force ... more of what it looks like and is it going to increase or decrease on my mind ....

 

[Stevie_T]

Re: How do you decide when to \'go\'?

As already mentioned, it is the sea conditions that count. The Med can be unpleasant in a F6 at times, certainly I didnt enjoy motorsailing to windward in the Meltemi this summer. Deciding when to go is down to a multitude of things;
Planning the passage thoroughly will help give you the information you need to make that decision.
Descriptions in pilot books, tidal info, weather forecasts, charts, personal experience, local knowledge, crew strengths, boats ability.
For example, the pilot may state that a certain headland is dangerous in certain wind/tide conditions, or that your destination port is dangerous in certain conditions making departure pointless, or an alternative needed.
Alternatively the weather forecast may state NE7 decreasing E5 becoming S gale 8 later. If you are heading South and you dont have too far to go you may decide to leave now before your anchorage becomes untenable.
I agree with what Jimi says, I have departed Hamble in a F10 to Cowes whilst running a course, it took 3 hours and was very wild. But nobody felt in danger, in fact I got 2 letters of thanks from the YM candidates. However I would not have gone out with a boat load of Comp Crew or Day Skippers.
To conclude, you have to weigh up safety by good passage planning, (even the Solent requires passage planning even if its all in your head) and whether you actually want or need to go out there. A delivery skipper will obviously have different priorities to a family on holiday.

 

[PCUK]

Re: How do you decide when to \'go\'?

If I am in any doubt, then I go and have a look. I have no qualms about coming back. But on many occasions when the forecast has been awful and no-one went out we have been for a look and found conditions to be absolutely fine. One year we were going to the East Coast Boat Show. The forecast was for strong gales right up the East coast but we had only a slight swell all the way from the Medway to Ipswich. Many much bigger boats boats were a day late arriving at the show as they had waited for the weather to "improve".

 

[tcm]

Re: How do you decide when to \'go\'?

all agreed - plus time of day is sometimes a small factor. I want conditions to be better if setting off later in a day as less daylight available for me or rescue services should anything go wrong. So banging out at dawn to have a look less of a problem is all day to come back. Whereas it has to to be pretty darned decent to go out in late afternoon or evening.

 

[Mirelle]

In a river with a bar

such as we, and a good many othere here, keep their boats in, things are a little different.

Whilst one might be very relaxed about putting out from safe port with an all-weather entrance, like Harwich, a river with a bar puts definite limits on things.

One must consider getting out and of course getting in again.

Having a low powered engine, F4 onshore is my "no-go" point, although friends with more engine power in sailing boats will still "go" at this point, and friends with high powered motor boats of seaworthy form will go over in a good 5. The critical factor is keeping steerage way in the confused seas on the bar.

Having once come in over the bar at the top of an onshore 4 and a strong spring ebb, I won't, ever. do that again. It reminded me just how fond of my family I am.

Marinas on the Orwell do quite well out of Deben and Alde-based boats at certain times of year!

With an offshore wind, there is no such issue, of course.

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Re: In a river with a bar

I think that temperature plays a big part as well....

I am generally happier to head off into a F6 when its 25deg than I am when its 10deg!

Also, agree about the previous few days weather bit..... sailing into the North sea, there can be a huge difference in sea state if there's been a Northerly for a few days previously..... even if the wind has dropped.... a F2 in a big sea is arguably even less pleasant that a F5 in the same big big sea....

 

[oldharry]

Re: In a river with a bar

When I need to?

 

[RupertW]

Re: In a river with a bar

Depends on a lot of things, but for me its mostly what boat I'm on and where I am. I've been in 60 knot gusts in the Solent in a 34 footer without any real concerns (but a rather sore face from the spray) but for a Plymouth to Brest crossing in a 24 footer I wouldn't go in a forecast above 6, and even then would turn back if it really was a 6 when I got out, or if it was above F4 on the nose. When I changed boats to a 31 footer I found I could do at least one force higher.

With novice guests I'm a lot more cautious unless they're the type who want a couple of hours thrashing along.

I'm not particularly bothered about day or night, but if its rough I prefer to get a bit of sea-room before dark.

Fog is very different - don't like the stuff and have turned back a number of times to find a mooring amongst other boats and wait for it to clear.

 

[Mirelle]

As Maurice Griffiths wrote, \"A fresh breeze to the ten tonner....\"

"... is a "something" gale to the little boat!"

Absolutely right, of course. I will make a coastal passage in the 37 footer that I would not have attempted in the 18 footer.

Fog is a no-go under any and all circumstances, with me. I don't have radar, but even if I did I doubt if I would set off in a fog

 

[claymore]

Re: How do you decide when to \'go\'?

This dicates things for us as well but being in the area we are, means that the decision is not whether or not but more one of where do we go to. Plenty of Islands and relatively sheltered Sounds give us more sailing opportunities than you Solenters. Then again we miss out because there is very little VHF traffic so there you go.

 

[ex-Gladys]

Re: How do you decide when to \'go\'?

Agree about sea conditions. Amber in a 5 over Priory spit coming back from Walton to the Blackwater was decidedly bouncy and wet a couple of times. Any more than an hour of that would have been greedy....

 

[RupertW]

Re: As Maurice Griffiths wrote, \"A fresh breeze to the ten tonner....\"

I sailed a Maurice Griffiths centre-cockpit 25 footer (plus bowsprit) with my father for a while. The rules for going out in that were different again - F6-7 with a rough sea, or an offshore F8 were fine but anything on the nose - forget it. With 2'6" draft and a triple keel it did more sideways than forwards.

It's main advantage was the solid way it sailed - with high wooden "walls" around the cockpit and a long keel consisting of an 18 inch wide, 10 foot long flat-bottomed piece of iron it simply ploughed through the water with a high sheer that stopped any spray. Modern 40 foot AWBs feel more unstable, and somehow smaller at sea than that (although better in most other ways).