How do you balance genoa & mainsail reefs?

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BelleSerene

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We have twin slab reefs in the mainsail, and a roller-furling genoa. I find that at around 17 knots it's worth reefing the main, and at around 19 knots (yes, I know!) it's worth putting the second reef in.

But whilst it's obviously possible to reef any proportion of the roller-furling genoa, I find that in a breeze a part-reefed genoa heels the boat more, and makes her more unruly, than depowering it by just strapping the thing hard in with the backstay yanked on. So up to quite high wind strengths I'll have a small mainsail and a comparatively large and over-flat genoa. Looks disgusting and clearly disrupts wind flow - but the boat feels and behaves better balanced than with a half-reefed foresail.

I would be interested to learn what others find about how you match the reefing of a roller-furling foresail against the main.

Our boat is a 39' Beneteau. The sails are cruising membranes, a few years old. The genoa is not large - just 110% - and does have a luff strip to reduce bagging when you part-furl it.
 
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Don't think there is an easy answer as it depends on the boat and the proportions of the rig. My old wooden boat with a large overlapping genoa and a slab reefing main, it was always the genoa first then the main.

On the boat I have now with a small(er) 110% jib, fractional rig and larger mainsail (in mast) I reduce the main first at around 18-20 knots and then a bit of both. Easier with in mast as you are not limited to fixed sail areas so can adjust the amount of sail of both sails to suit the conditions.

Not sure whether than helps.
 
I've moved from main at all times to much more jib powered with smaller or no main unless hard on the wind.
A new padded luff and high cut jib has helped - all with the idea of avoiding rounding up in gusts which was a problem.
So although we start with full main and jib in light winds (asymetric if wind aft at all) we drop the main sheet down the track then reef main progressively down to double reef before touching the jib. Then if jib double reefed and still rounding up drop the main altogether - we find we sail faster and much easier than before
 
Back in the '70s it was common to see masthead boats sailing with double-reefed main and full overlapping genoa, but modern boats are a bit different. With my 110% jib I would put a reef in the main first! then take a few rolls off the jib! then put a second. Reef in the main, but I might start reefing the jib earlier if I needed to do short tacking in a river.
 
Every boat is unique, so I can only speak for my boat, which is a fractional rigged lightweight with high aspect wing keel and oversize main for the Mediterranean light winds
I suspect that anyone trying to make use of one foresail for all windward conditions are on a hiding to nothing.
I use a 150%, a 110%, and a 65% genoa on the foresail roller reefing, a 100% solent which is a conventional deck-hugger.
My first decision has to be which headsail to use for expected conditions. Windward work either solent or 65% genoa. Light wind reaching the 150% genoa. The 110% genoa is a work-horse for all conditions.
I always start with the 1st of 4 reefs in the main. This, on windward work, goes in @ F3, the 2nd @ F4 and 4th @ top end 5 - deepest reef is for gale-force winds. Storm canvas (when I can't avoid such conditions) is the reefed 65% yankee jib with the fully reefed main.
My annual, single-handed sailing over the past 1/4 century has been between 1.2K and 2.5K nautical miles a year.
I now concentrate on avoiding windward work - age demands some concessions.
 
john_morris_uk said:
May I suggest that it depends on what point of of sailing you are on as well.
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That's clearly true but for me it's only hard on the wind that the boat will never round up (except a few degrees helpfully) with reaching the worst point for that, so my new cut off angle for dropping the main in moderate plus winds is about 80 degrees off the wind (generally after dropping it down the mainsheet track and double reefing). This has worked so much better for our boat for a season and half that I may drop the main earlier without bothering with the reefing once the wind starts rising.

I have to admit this way feels very very wrong to me but it's working very well so far and I do enjoy relaxing watching the autohelm gently keeping the boat on track when we are reaching in 20 knots gusting 35. It feels more natural under jib alone broad reaching and running but once again dropping the main is a new experiment there too.
 
Most people who reef when racing will be thinking about sailing to windward.
Many boats will handle full sail on a reach, particularly an 'old olympic course' broad reach, but need a reef upwind.
Upwind, generally flatten the main a bit, change down the jib, then flatten more as the wind rises.
There will be exceptions I'm sure....
 
As others have said I think every boat is going to be different and you just need to find what works best for yours in given conditions. Mine is relatively light weight and I never sail with a partially furled jib. I generally go for the first reef in the mainsail around the 20 knot true mark, with the second at 24-25 knots, both with a full jib. In this configuration we will still see 10 knots plus boat speed to windward and 15 plus if we bear off a bit. After that sea conditions generally force you to slow the boat down so I take in the jib completely to power down.
 
john_morris_uk said:
May I suggest that it depends on what point of of sailing you are on as well.
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With the proviso that you may need to turn quickly upwind in an emergency and you may find yourself over-canvassed.

People sometimes forget that and use the roller reefing on the genoa through laziness.
 
johnalison said:
B...... With my 110% jib I would put a reef in the main first! then take a few rolls off the jib! then put a second. Reef in the main, but I might start reefing the jib earlier if I needed to do short tacking in a river.
Click to expand...

We do pretty much exactly the same, the first reef in the main goes in fairly early and stops her rounding up in a gust. In general she sails better with less heel and the early reef also stops any tendency for weather helm as the wind strengthens.
 
We've a masthead rig with a 160% overlapping genie. The latter is only used at full size in light airs, mainly it has a couple of furls in it. If the wind increases above 15 knots we drop in a reef, two for overnight sailing and then more furls before eventually dropping in the 3rd reef. All that said we've hardly sailed up wind since leaving Panama in March. And down wind it is often easier to use just the genie especially if we are going to have to gybe frequently, though we also use a sail plan of 2nd reef in the main and partially furled genie poled out a lot. It's the number of sails we carry around and never use that I sometimes wonder about - two spinnakers, an asymmetric and a set of storm sails. Of those only the big kite gets a semi regular outing.
 
Do what works for you, it really doesn't matter how it looks as long as it's working for you at that time. Sailing isn't a beauty competition, it's about being fun. :0)

You don't say how old your boat is. Older boats were generally mast head rigs with 130-150% genoa, but as the need for better accommodation, improvements in materials and performance developed, rigs got taller, boats got longer and lighter and masts moved forward and headsails went down to 100-115% genoas, or smaller with a self-tacking jib.

So it's not really surprising you're having to reef the mainsail first, as this is providing most of your power.

What works on my 80s Sadler will give you no help at all :0)
 
I have a heavy displacement, long keel 36ft. when I bought her the genoa was rather large, deck sweeping, and totally unsuitable for cruising (i could not see under it) - I had a new one made about 15% smaller which feels more comfortable.

Put the first reef in the main at about 15 kns true (say 20 kns apparent when going to windard), then 4 rolls in the genoa at 22-23 kns apparent.

2nd reef in the main at ~28kns. Seems to keep her nicely balanced and controllable.

Off the wind I now tend to sail under genoa only, especially running, as this means the main is not shadowing the jib (and there is no 'oh sh*t' when turning-up into the wind and I realise it is much stronger than anticipated).
 
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