How do you “manage” 2-handed passages

skyflyer

skyflyer

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Perhaps i’ve chosen the wrong pastime but neither my wife nor I particularly enjoy long passages, preferring to coast hop and stop enroute if we have time, geography and weather on our side

Nevertheless we accept that if we want to go new places then such passages are a necessary obstacle to be overcome. I enjoy the planning and the navigation etc but just don’t really get much stimulation once we are settled onto a course with a steady wind and out of sight of land for the next 15 hours! Not helped by being slightly prone to seasickness, albeit not the debilitating kind, but just queasy if the seas start to build!

Just wondering whether I am alone in this and if not how others best manage it?

My wife is compcrew++ and we do each try and have time “off watch”, but I find it difficult to relax down below for more than ten or fifteen minutes without wanting to check all is OK! She similarly feels we are better off together in the cockpit!

I’m retiring next year and we really want to try and get further afield and sail some of the great areas in the UK and beyond, but if we can’t find a way to “mentally adjust” to longer passages ( Eg Lands End to S. Wales or direct to R.o. Ireland) then it’s going to be a struggle,

Im sure there’s no silver bullet but any tips and tricks would help as indeed would the thought that we aren’t unique in being sailors who don’t like sailing!
 
Here is the Great Secret.

Disregard Time.

Most people are very time constrained in their sailing. Weekends, short holidays, grab a fleeting moment. Got to use the tides, weather, all sorts. Rushy rush rush.

Once you can make time work for you .....by ignoring it.... then you will feel the difference.

Example. You leave Portsmouth for Cherbourg. Should take, say 15 or so hours. You arrive after 20 or more. So what, you have been out on a boat. Zillions of people will never experience that. Ever. Feel good!

Important though you dont throw your watch away, you still need times of HW, sunset, bar open, when you are next on watch, but yo, its just numbers.

First time I took my now wife out sailing, I was told to 'make the boat stay up straight'. She has been for a long time now, an Ocean Yachtmaster.

Soo, let the clock run on its own path, join it now and then and enjoy!
 
As the cap’n says, you have to let go of time. It is the journey that matters, not the arrival. Once you have abandoned the thought of ‘just x more hours and we’ll be there’ you will get the feeling that you can go on and on.
Another point: it is absolutely imperative that you get some rest when off watch. As a skipper with a (even slightly) less experienced/capable/confident crew you will only be able to relax if you are 100% certain that they will call you if there is the least doubt in their mind. That in turn will only happen if they are 100% certain that if they call you 10 times, you will be happy to be called every time, even if nothing is wrong.
It is a question of building your confidence and theirs.
 
skyflyer said:
I’m retiring next year and we really want to try and get further afield and sail some of the great areas in the UK and beyond, but if we can’t find a way to “mentally adjust” to longer passages ( Eg Lands End to S. Wales or direct to R.o. Ireland) then it’s going to be a struggle
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I used to sail almost always single handed, including long (and later very long) passages. The tipping point, which came quite early, was when I truly regarded my then boat as "home". It was where I lived (temporarily, initially, but later full time). Above all, it was where I felt most comfortable and at ease, whether on passage or not. Perhaps you'll experience the same process...and perhaps the more so if you adopt a mindset open to that possibility.
(After meeting my wife, it became an even better home :encouragement: although we recently acquired one of those house things as well.)
 
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I think my answer. Would be not very well.

I often sail single handed or When with my wife when I sail single handed. Oh to be fair she helps and while she insists she doesn't know how to sail or want to know how to sail. she does know how to sail. or at least how to crew and help me sail.
She just does not want to be left in charge. I can go bellow and Make tea or cook something but leaving her to go and sleep is a step beyond her comfort and therefore mine.

My voyages are limited to my own personal endurance limit without fatigue. If I wish to go further afield I need at least one other person with the knowledge and confidence to take a watch.

I did do a longer passage with my son. In reflection it was an error of judgment I wouldn't repeat. Just two of us was not sufficient for adequate rest and we were both quite exhausted.

My advice would be bring a friend or two. Until you are both comfortable standing a watch at night alone. Also comfortable going to sleep and leaving the other on watch alone. Which is part of my problem I don't usually have a partner I feel comfortable. I can leave alone on watch at night.
 
The only time restrictions we have on any long trip and arriving in a new harbor is to arrive with a bit of day light ,
Anchorages are fine but I always like to arrive in a harbour in light
we don't have to worry about HW or LW since leaving the Atlantic nine years ago . Off course in your case you need to take that all in consideration , we don't have watches As many do , on a 24 to 72 hours trip
We sleep when we tired while the other on watch the watch changes when one wakes up or if the one on watch gets tired , I normally don't sleep for more then three hours and then I am happy to be awake for the next five during the night my co skipper will sleep for about four hours before waking up .
Day time we just play it by hear , she like to read I more into doing some thing or on the iPad or even watching a film ,
We both do our share at navigation so that also keep us busy .
while both on deck we both on watch unless one is having a kip .
Time don't apply, There no lunch or supper time we eat when we ready ,
we sleep when we tired .
But as said you do have to have 100% confidence in your crew for this to work .
I would suggest in your case to at less start with some kind of watch system ,given the other some time off ,
You might find the night to be more difficult to handle then the day time especially if they are cold and wet . So try and plain long trip around the weather .
If being below is a problem in weather then prepare meals in advance ,
make sandwiches before hand .
Night sails can be a working time for newcomers, ship can look a lot closer then what they are and so can bouys , so to start with try sleepong on deck with your crew and once your both happy with being on your own then make it an habit to hit the buck .
In some ways it easier for us as we both been solo sailor .
 
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My wife and I were similar.
I think the key is getting over the 'being alone on deck' barrier.
You both need to get some rest, even if it's just a couple of 90 minute sleeps on an overnight passage.
Best to plan fairly carefully that you will be below for the easiest bits.
Which on a typical cross channel is usually the middle, between the lanes.
Get a bit of rest in early, before you are completely shot away.
Pick your weather.
Pick your tides to allow early departures. If you can set off at 4AM, you will have made progress by breakfast time and more likely to get there by last orders.
Also you will have broken your sleep cycle, so will be amenable to an afternoon nap, which is an easy time for SWMBO to be on watch alone, and sets you up to keep going into the night.
Try to avoid setting straight off on a long passage, do a short hop first to get away from all the stress of actually getting away from home and loading the boat etc.

A third person or more can work. Or not.
There is a lot you can do with not more than a 15 hour passage.
OTOH, getting some mates to do say Solent-Falmouth-Ireland is an option.
 
+++ On not rushing, it's very different long term cruising from the average holiday. Instead of fretting the further you get away from your home port its ' The weather isn't right for a Biscay crossing till next week. No problem. we'll just cruise the Rade de Brest instead'.

SWMBO and I have regarded the ocean passages as a necessary evil if we want to move the boat to a new cruising ground. Also, we've found the 24/36 hour trips toughest in terms of lack of sleep. Your body hasn't got used to the broken sleep pattern yet.

Find out what suits you as a couple. We work on a 3 hours watch pattern, but only at night. Day time is a free for all, except in the early morning when nothing much is happening so let whoever is below have a lie-in.
 
Confidence on both sides.
Get her to start helming and making decisions. From that builds the confidence she needs to know when she needs help.

After all, most watch keeping is simply looking about and watching for approaching vessels plus a bit of sail trimming. Nothing complicated in that. Lifeline and clipped on when alone on deck even in daylight!
 
With only 15 mins off every now and then on a long passage you will become sleep deprived and will be in danger of making poor decisions towards the end of the passage e.g. if the wind gets up and you have to change destination, perhaps to somewhere a lot further away, or you may misread buoy lights.

Fatigue and lack of sleep can be very dangerous.

Is it that your wife doesn't trust herself to stand a watch for 3 hrs with you available if needed, or is it you fretting?

If the former then think about how to give her more confidence, perhaps with her doing DS on a course without you.

If the latter, then you need to have a word with yourself and work out why you don't trust her to get on with it.

As others have said, the first 24hrs is the worst as your body hasn't adjusted to the sleep pattern and motion. Longer passages can often be more relaxing as you both realise "it's all ok".
 
I think I may have mis-stated the issue. It’s essentially a matter of boredom rather than confidence/competence

Both my wife and I work shifts so managing sleep and rest isn’t really an issue and in many ways might passages are easier than day because we DO sleep and that passes the time!
But I can’t read a book or watch a film on passage during the day unless it’s a very smooth sea!

The comments above about letting go of time seem the best advice. Perhaps I should take up meditation!
 
skyflyer said:
I think I may have mis-stated the issue. It’s essentially a matter of boredom rather than confidence/competence

Both my wife and I work shifts so managing sleep and rest isn’t really an issue and in many ways might passages are easier than day because we DO sleep and that passes the time!
But I can’t read a book or watch a film on passage during the day unless it’s a very smooth sea!

The comments above about letting go of time seem the best advice. Perhaps I should take up meditation!
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If you’re subject to queasiness in a moderate sea, then experiment with the various sea sickness pills until you find one that gets rid of the nausea with no or minimal side effects. Anything more than a light swell and I take Stugeron simply to prevent that slight nausea when I read or do chart work. That’ll resolve the boredom angle with a couple of good books...
 
skyflyer said:
I think I may have mis-stated the issue. It’s essentially a matter of boredom rather than confidence/competence

Both my wife and I work shifts so managing sleep and rest isn’t really an issue and in many ways might passages are easier than day because we DO sleep and that passes the time!
But I can’t read a book or watch a film on passage during the day unless it’s a very smooth sea!

The comments above about letting go of time seem the best advice. Perhaps I should take up meditation!
Click to expand...

I find audio books a wonderful thing as well as the massive choice of podcasts that are available to download. One Atlantic crossing took me through an entire political philosophy course from Yale! I was none the wiser but much better informed on arrival!
 
skyflyer said:
I think I may have mis-stated the issue. It’s essentially a matter of boredom rather than confidence/competence
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Oh I don't know, two people alone in a small boat with loads of time and no prying eyes about, I can think of all sorts of things you could get up to to alleviate the boredom, wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say no more. ;) ;)



Like learning to knit or learning that really tricky bagpipe tune on the chanter.
 
Music or audio books. Of course if you do play music then feel free to sing along as there is no-one to disturb. ( Although if the dolphins start complaining then take the subtle hint about your singing and be quiet!)
 
Jane and I did watches four hours on and four off and 2 hours at the 18.00 watch so you could get a chance to see sunset and sunrise. When one of us finished a watch at midnight we could have a drink of our choice, Jane was White wine me Gin, Tonic and Lime.
 
Sandy said:
Oh I don't know, two people alone in a small boat with loads of time and no prying eyes about, I can think of all sorts of things you could get up to to alleviate the boredom, wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say no more. ;) ;)
.
Click to expand...
You remind me of times when we've been caught over the years when we thought nobody was nearby - worst was a very close encounter near St Alban's Head with a Moody full of waterproofed and life jacketed people whilst we were enjoying the sunshine unencumbered and having a bit of a lie down.

But on the long passage question - we finished a 260 mile passage a couple of days ago in about 45 hours and just always make sure we have a 24 hour watch system. My wife is very competent at keeping watch and navigating but doesn't fiddle with sails much, so I may get called when off watch if something needs more adjusting than she can or wants to manage, which is fine.

The reason we do watches in the day as well as the night is so it is always crystal clear who is responsible for keeping a lookout even if we are both mid chat or reading books. Autohelm essential, obviously. In our twenties we always described our holidays as "meeting on the stairs" and somehow would sleep though nearly every off-watch, but that was a twitch 24 footer so maybe much more tiring.

I love moving cruising grounds but don't necessarily love the long trips that this entails - this year its a 12 hundred mile overal trip, but broken up wherever we can so we can explore places along the way.
 
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I believe that one must have a 'system' to take out the worry factor.

a system of agreed times for watches - even if the handover is adjusted a bit.

a system of triggers for calling the other person if in need or doubt

a system of dealing with the washing up, cooking, cleaning.

And there has to be someone at the top of the command chain. Even if that chain is reversed when on dry land :)

There's no point, and indeed, a danger, in staying awake off watch, and being below par when it's your turn to be on deck.



If you are in to reading, a Kindle taped to an unused winch or stanchion leaves both hands free for steering and working the boat. Strangely, if the Kindle is fixed to the boat, I can read it more easily than if holding it.
 
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