How damp are liveaboards...??

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Ifraser

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I've read ( and experienced ) lots of things about boats being damp... I'm just about to set off up country to pick up my new, to me, C-Kip 40 trawler yacht that I will be living aboard on the South Coast of the UK. She is currently fitted with a Hydronic eberspacher linked through radiators. As I'm told the eber is not really intended for full time residential use I will, in time, fit a reflex with a hot water coil and small circ pump to utilise the existing radiator system. In the meantime I'll be in a marina for the first winter and will probably use oil filled electric rads.
My questions, to you experienced liveaboarders, are... is damp a problem? do your clothes go mouldy in the wardrobe etc...? do you leave the heating on 24/7 or, like I am planning to save fuel/leccy switch it off when I'm at work..??
I've lots of boating experience but my living aboard is so far limited to about 4 days in the summer on a posh new 40' boat as a commercial skipper. I will definately be taking the plunge in the next few weeks so will be finding out for myself anyway but would appreciate the experiences of people who've already been doing it and especially from those who have experience of living through winter aboard in North europe... thanks Iain
 
Two things to consider: ventilation and insulation. Get these right and the boat will be nice and dry (even with a steel hull and deck at 60 degrees north through the winter). Skimp on either and you will have damp problems to varying degrees. Not very different to houses in fact.
 
Now entering our third winter on the South Coast I can say that damp is no longer a major problem having lagged & insulated the hull below the waterline. Yes we do still get a bit of damp, its almost unavoidable, but its manageable with plenty of ventilation.
Worse than the damp is the condensation, especially in our wheelhouse which requires wiping off every few hours to avoid it running down inside. This was worse when cooking but with the addition of an extractor fan it is much improved.
 
I totally agree with SRM, we've lived aboard a 28' steel boat for 5 years now and with good insulation and well planned ventilation damp does not exist in our boat. We even left her for 2 months last winter with no heating at all and when we came back she smelt as sweet as ever.
And welcome to the live aboard life.
Maurice
 
Damp

We have lived aboard three different steel boats for 34 years now, and have taken great care not to be damp.
All three were well foamed. We had good heating with viable alternatives. That is in one boat we had wood-burning stoves that used drift-wood (mostly), but electric heating was fitted as an emergency back-up.
Some people forget that the bilges need insulation too, otherwise the condensation runs down. Condensation is the problem. In a marina, one can have a de-humidifier, though we do not.
Check that your refleks will support radiators. You may need a circulating pump because heating water will not syphon in pipes under 3/4". We are using a Kabola at the moment in Northern France. Last year in temps of -17C and with 7cm ice in the canal, we remained comfortable.
Coping with problems is idiosyncratic to the boat. You learn fast what your boat likes. It's like breaking in a new wife: one has to adapt one's expectations.
 
dampness

I am on board 365/365 and have used an Eber ( blown air ) for heating for 6yrs. Keeps boat dry(trunking runs through wet locker and under wardrobe) ,just make sure fuel is clean and boat ventilated.
I am on the Clyde at present.Heater is using 10 litres per week. I seldom turn it off,just turn stat right down at night.
 
We're in Plymouth living aboard a Westerly Tempest (31 feet) at the moment.

When we first started to spend a lot of time aboard last winter, we had a lot of problems with damp/condensation - but after a week of lots of heat (Eberspacher) and ventilation, it died off completely. I think we'd managed to dry out the upholstery or something.

Since then we've replaced that Eber (it was 15 years old and de-laminated) and were told that Ebers prefer to be run at full power - and that if run this way they have very few problems. To that end we had (until last night) been using the Eber on full power in the morning, then using a fan heater to maintain a comfortable temperature during the day.

This has been fine for 3 days (or so we thought), but last night, into the 3rd day of regular rain showers, I found that the back wall of ALL of our cabin lockers were damp.

After a bit of chin scratching I came to the conclusion that running a heater which simply cycles warm air around the cabin (fan heater) instead of introducing new air (Eber blown air) was the problem. We fired up the Eber, set it to a comfy temp, opened cupboards, and waited.

Took just 30 mins for the whole place to be dry again!

I think our options are to get a dehumidifier, close the hatches, and use the fan heater (two noisy, power hungry, space taking appliances - and no fresh air), or accept that the Eber will probably need servicing/repair from time to time and use that instead. I think we'll go for the latter option. Probably not a great deal of price difference anyway as the Eber seems substantially cheaper to run.

In your case though, with radiators, I think you'll need an extractor to keep air moving into and out of the boat - assuming my theory is correct.
 
I would strongly suggest using a dehumidifier. The problem with boats is there are all sorts of nooks and crannies some of which are inaccessible and/or poorly ventilated. Even cupboards are usually badly ventilated. We have a steel boat, fully insulated, but we still use a dehumidifier.

Out of interest we are currently running it only at night when we have heating on. By the morning it has taken three litres of water out of the air. It's amazing it doesn't rain in the boat ;-)
 
thanks for all the replies..

thanks for all the replies so far they've been very useful. Someone mentioned a circ pump for the refleks and as far as I can see the 61msk supports radiators and I have found a coouple of small circ pumps that only draw 1 amp. I'm planning a bit ot clever plumbing (if it works!!) where I end up with two heating systems.. the eber ( which I can run on a timer for when I come home from a night shift ) and the reflex. I have a plan to have a bit of a manifold system so I can choose my heat source and also choose where it goes.. ie rads and calorifier or just calorifier and maybe even pump it round the engines to pre-warm them when required.. That may all prove a bit too ambitious but we'll see. Anyway as to the damp.. in reply to one of the posts about air circulation I do understand that air needs to circulate and once I start using the boat I may add a small low power extraction fan or two and draw fresh air in from a vent..perhaps behind a rad or the reflex so that its preheated as it comes in.. thanks so far for all the info... please keep it comming if there's any other thoughts... cheers Iain.
 
Diesel Stoves are the way forward

We run a Dickinson cookstove with a hotwater coil. The stove is on 24/7 just like a raeburn this gives lots of dry heat, via the coil it also heats our hot water systems both for cooking and for running the 4 1/2 kilowatt rads (burns around 5 liters of diesel a day).

The hull is ferro cement lined with 3 to 4 inches of foam insulation the deck is 7/8ths ply with a 10mm liner of closed bubble insulation.

Last winter the minimum temp on board was 63 degrees the highest the stove was run at was 3.5 ( the maximum is 5).

The rads are on 24 hours a day, 1/2 Kw for 24 hours is 12 kilowatts a day for each rad thats 48 Kw in a 45 foot boat.

The interior is a warm (hot in the galley) dry and shirtsleeve environment all year round.

Yes we do keep lots of hatches open, forecabin, heads, galley. the stove needs lots of fresh air and we need to ensure that we humidity can dissipate.

We have spent a lot of time, effort and money getting it right, we are not there yet but we are very comfortable.

Talk with Brett at Kuranda (www.kuranda.co.uk/), he is a fantastic source of information and advice as well as parts and fitting at decent prices. The Refleks is a great heater and should work very well for you.
 
KellysEye said:
I would strongly suggest using a dehumidifier. The problem with boats is there are all sorts of nooks and crannies some of which are inaccessible and/or poorly ventilated. Even cupboards are usually badly ventilated. We have a steel boat, fully insulated, but we still use a dehumidifier.

Out of interest we are currently running it only at night when we have heating on. By the morning it has taken three litres of water out of the air. It's amazing it doesn't rain in the boat ;-)
Click to expand...

We run an air conditioner with reverse cycle, provided warm and cool DRY air.
 
Since my last post we've been running only the Eber, and only during the day. Weather has been decidedly damp.

Nooks and crannies seem to become dry regardless of lack of ventilation (to the crannies), without a dehumidifier. I think because the air in the environ is drier, and so they dry out. That's got to be the same for a dehumidifier also hasn't it? The dehumidifier doesn't magically ventilate crannies and nooks after all.

As I said above, any heater that cycles air in the cabin space results in you becoming warm, but wet. Any heater that forces a flow of air through the cabin from outside will result in a dehumidifying effect. So Eber/Webasto etc is good - fan heater, radiator, convection heater is bad (I guess unless positioned directly under a vent, and pointed at that vent - but that would be a bit daft). Presume solid fuel stoves push enough air out the chimnney so that replacement air is sucked in where it can, giving same effect as our Eber.

Problem with a dehumidifier is that when using one it's actually best (for it) _not_ to ventilate, otherwise you're trying to dry out the planet - resulting in poorer air quality for you to breathe. Also makes a noise, takes up space and costs to run (you still need to heat, though less than without as you won't lose so much out of your now closed hatches).

Our Eber has a mode where it can just blow air into the cabin. I would guess though haven't tried, that we could get away with a fan/convection heater in combination with that... which is tempting as it would mean we didn't need to use the Eber in low mode (which apparently is what leads to them coking up and requiring a service).
 
Damp, No if,,,

I·m in my tenth year as a full time 365 live aboard, two in the UK and eight cruising,,,
Good insulation, if this is practical ,if not do what is possible, then with good ventilation at the right time of day, experience will tell you when,,, PLUS, blown hot air heating, well distributied around the boat,
I have a 31ft sailing yacht, with WEBASTO hot air heater with outlets in the three main areas, the trunking is placed through the bilges, a solar panel charger takes care of the dedicated battery,
Has a backup I have a normal hot air fan heater, for use in marinas,
The WEBASTO is almost fifteen years old so maybe soon it will need renewing, I find regular maintenance (summer time job) and parts are easy to replace,
I wish you good cruising,
 
Ludd said:
I am on board 365/365 and have used an Eber ( blown air ) for heating for 6yrs. Keeps boat dry(trunking runs through wet locker and under wardrobe) ,just make sure fuel is clean and boat ventilated.
I am on the Clyde at present.Heater is using 10 litres per week. I seldom turn it off,just turn stat right down at night.
Click to expand...
I would concur with this post having, until last year, lived aboard for 8 years.
People seem to be neurotic about damp but with adequate heating in winter and sensible ventilation it's not a problem.
Dehumidifiers are a waste of time. You are living in an aquatic environment and to attempt to dehumidify it is ridiculous, rather like King Canute. If you have proper ventilation then as fast as you dehumidfy the air it is replaced with more moist air. The humidity during winter in a marina can be well into 90%+ and to try to achieve dry air is a losing battle. If you can't cope with humidity then living aboard is not for you.
I also have an Eber blown air and it works well at keeping the boat "dry" to less than 80% which is habitable and perfectly comfortable.
Condensation is to be expected and is simply wiped off.
 
Damp

We lived aboard from September to January on the UK South Coast, we used polystyrene tiles for the all the surfaces around the bed and wall surfaces in the sleeping cabin and underneath the main cabin cushions. We didn't stick them down they seemed to stay put on their own but guess you could use double sided tape or even velcro if necessary. We also 'double glazed' the windows/hatches with bubble wrap worked a treat letting in the light but helping to insulate. We also had a dehumidifier not good at night, just used it in the day when we were at work but I think a useful addition to keeping the boat dry.
 
Lived aboard in Holland (frozen in the ice for some of the time) and UK all year round, never had any condensation or damp problems, used an eber for heat for some of the time, fan heaters as well, but our boat is wood, a lot different. I also find a big cover is a boon, especially if you can erect it tent like, allows hatches to be opened even when raining, to get great throughput of air.
 
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