How can the individual have respect for so called "Drug Enforcement"..

steve_cronin

steve_cronin

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How can the individual have respect for so called \"Drug Enforcement\"..

.. when the outrageuos behaviour of french "officers" of last month is performed on HIS boat?

We all nod in agreement with the idea that it is in everyone's interests that the occassional rumble takes place to"protect our kids" but if you had been the owner of the Hallberg Rassay which was boarded of St Vaast last month and taken to Cherbourg where the bost was torn apart with fuel & water tanks ripped out, headlinings smashed down when the could have been unscrewed easily and the decks severely damaged by the aggressive and repeated clawing of sniffer dogs, what whould be your views then?

If it were me then I would. I am sure, alter my current attaitude of support and adopt a policy of see all say nowt - "I'll be bu66ered rather that assist the authorities if this is their attitude". Do they really think that the yachtsman can be on their side when this sort of thing happens and the owner is left to put things back together afterwards?

Steve Cronin
 
Re: How can the individual have respect for so called \"Drug Enforcement\"..

What reason was given for taking the Halberg Rassay in the first place.

I presume no drugs where found.

I apologize if I have missed a post about this.

Years ago I was dragged off by customs at Dover Ferry Port
and searched the only reason I could see for the search was that I had very long hair (wish I still had it).

So what would make the customs think a yacht was carrying drugs.

Was it maybe some nasty had sent a false rerport there are a lot of twisted people about.
 
Re: How can the individual have respect for so called \"Drug Enforcement\"..

That they were crossing on a weekday was continually questioned I understand. However if I was looking to smuggle I think I'd be doing it on a weekend when there was a lot more traffic about.

No. Nothing was found.

Steve Cronin
 
Re: How can the individual have respect for so called \"Drug Enforcement\"..

There was a long thred about this, and IIRC some question about their attitude towards the French customs

I wasn't there so cannot comment. I do know that I always treat customs with respect, as the consequences of treating them otherwise are not worth the hassle. I've only once ben 'controlled' by French customs in 30 years of regular visits and have to say they were most polite
 
Re: How can the individual have respect for so called \"Drug Enforcement\"..

There is certainly a feeling of violation after a forced boarding by Customs. I have "enjoyed" this, (i was asleep at the time), watchkeeper was only looking forward, 07.00 off Portland and did not see the 100' Customs Cutter coming up his tail pipe.

His first realisation was when the RIB hit the side of the boat and four or five armed Customs men fell over the rail onto the deck and pinned him in a corner of the wheelhouse. One came into my cabin and told me to get up and waited while I did so. Then searched the boat without me present and on finding nothing departed without so much as a sorry for being a nuisance. This was British Customs by the way.

It would be more acceptable if they actually achieved something! I think it's probably fair to say that every 16 y.o. may not be smoking dope, but for sure he/she knows someone who does, and therefore is at worst one phone call from a ready supply. And for this we lose our civil liberties and the tradional method of consent policing.

When the Customs Officer hove into view with his braid on and politely asked if he might come aboard you knew you had to let him, it was just a form of words that helped the world turn. Now the jumped up little toe rags can go hang themselves for all I care.

It is time we legalised drugs through Government supply, got clean supplies to those silly enough to use it, got revenue for the Government to handle the fall out, and deprived the criminals of the living once and for all. Get the Customs back in the box, (after all they are only guys not clever enough to be Policemen), save loads of taxpayers dosh, and all in all a statistical good day.

Of course there will be those whose relatives have suffered who will poo poo such a move, but they have no solution. Do something seems to me to be a good idea.

Rant Over. Apologies.
 
Re: How can the individual have respect for so called \"Drug Enforcement\"..

There is no need for it. Could it just be a stunt to deter some of the stupid yachties around.

The problem is that drug smuggling by yachts around the world is huge. We got mixed up in a whole ship that was captured.

One way is to travel a large boat/ship past the country. Then yachts are stolen, coerced or paid to pick up from the ships. Loosing one yacht is not much but loosing the ship is a problem.

It is another good reason to always stay away from ships to the point that a customs radar can see you never went near one. Far enough that a dingy could not be used to do a transfer.

As for legalizing them. Anyone that thinks that works is looking at the problem from their point of view. The point of drugs is not to feed a habit, but to make money. Whatever you legalize they will still need to make money. So they will come up with a new illegal substance/device/method and it will be marketed by the continued phases that "1:4 have tried it" or "everyone is doing it" type campaigns. They want money: drugs is just one of their current game plans along, people smuggling, arms smuggling etc. So under that reasoning we should all have missile launchers and legal slaves and the world would be cured!
 
Re: How can the individual have respect for so called \"Drug Enforcement\"..

[ QUOTE ]
As for legalizing them. Anyone that thinks that works is looking at the problem from their point of view. The point of drugs is not to feed a habit, but to make money. Whatever you legalize they will still need to make money. So they will come up with a new illegal substance/device/method and it will be marketed by the continued phases that "1:4 have tried it" or "everyone is doing it" type campaigns. They want money: drugs is just one of their current game plans along, people smuggling, arms smuggling etc. So under that reasoning we should all have missile launchers and legal slaves and the world would be cured!

[/ QUOTE ]

With respect that is so back-to-front. Of course the supply side wants to make money, it makes me very angry when politicians talk of legalising possession, it's just a licence to make criminals rich. It is necessary to deal with the whole problem. If you're saying to me that it's wrong headed because they will find another way to make a living, my answer would be so? What a good idea.

Don't think that because one group sells drugs another group isn't already trying to do all the other things you suggest, of course they are. That is surely not a reason to leave them with a good deal now, not do anything about it, and hope they don't turn to some other rip off. The words Neville and Chamberlain come to mind, (if you're old enough - I'm not but I read the book).
 
Re: How can the individual have respect for so called \"Drug Enforcement\"..

French Customs have been doing this for years. In 1988 coming back from France Trailing a 15 ft Fletcher we got pulled at Calais (french side). Waiting in the same shed was another brit with a Rib. He was being very obstructive. At that point they got out drills and drilled his double skin hull about 20 times with a 6mill Drill bit looking for canabis resin (and ruined his boat...for nothing). When they came too us we stripped our boat (carpets and all) in double fast time. Of course they also found nothing.....(it was all in the car /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif...boat far too obvious)

Cheers

Paul /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
Re: How can the individual have respect for so called \"Drug Enforcemen

[ QUOTE ]
Of course the supply side wants to make money, it makes me very angry when politicians talk of legalising possession, it's just a licence to make criminals rich. It is necessary to deal with the whole problem. If you're saying to me that it's wrong headed because they will find another way to make a living, my answer would be so? What a good idea.


[/ QUOTE ]
So right. Here in Guernsey we have a hugely expensive Customs force fighting the drugs war. Being an island, there is no land route yet drugs are easily available everywhere, even in the schools. It's a pointless exercise, driving the price of drugs up so high that, on the one hand, we have a plague of petty crime carried out by people trying to fund their habit and, on the other hand, our new prison is full to overflowing with non-local people caught trying to bring the stuff in.
Every time Customs make a haul their idiot chief officer is everywhere in the media saying how successful they are. I bet he tries to fill his bath with plug out.
 
Re: How can the individual have respect for so called \"Drug Enforcemen

Surely people should have learnt a lesson from prohibition in America.

As soon as anything is banned gangsters will start supplying it,

The people that take drugs always will, so legalize and control it to a much greater degree than it is possible to do now.

It will probably save the tax payers money as well and easy the strain on the prisons.
 
Re: How can the individual have respect for so called \"Drug Enforcemen

Apologies for post length-student debate mood struck me :-).

It's quite simple. Prohibition doesn't work. Period.

It's a waste of taxes (and a loss of potential taxes). Doesn't save on the number of lives ruined sadly. Doesn't genuinely help society or truly improve it. And above all prohibition closes the doors to better ideas to control and reduce the harm drug and other addictions do to the victims, and their families.

Prohibition supporters get their way even today because of the moral arguement and pointing at the victims (and their families). Their sentiments by and large are in the right heart because they wish to save lives. However it is not working longterm and it is NOT a deeply effective strategy that will last.

That's people for you. Folks should have the right to both the education to understand the harm they can do themselves, and the right to go ahead and do it. What society decides to do when they end up in hospital is perhaps yet another debate. There are lots of these to be had because losing prohibition is only the beginning of starting a whole new chapter on brand new and better ways to cope with the reality that pandora's box (of drugs) was opened and will never close unless we all become some kind of computer controlled robot or similar who can' tdisobey the law.

That last was a point taken to the ridiculous perhaps-the essence however is simple enough. Without a totalitarian for your own good dictatorship backed up by mass use of technology, you won't get the obediance the prohibition seeks.

Risks, tragedies and everything included, warts and all-I'd take freedom over security anyday IMHO.

Before it's said as a counterpoint, I've lived with heroin addicts-helped one get out of it in fact. I've dealt with speed dealers who are hooked on their own product. And I've dealt with a few psychotics created from overuse of very strong cannabis. It's not nice stuff, it ain't pretty to see and if there was a button to make it all go away I'd press it. There ain't. We genuinely need to look far further and more creatively than bloody punishment and restrictions for pete's sake. New approaches need to be tried instead of the approaches that are repeatedly used.

Ever seen a fly try to get out of a window and bounce repeatedly against it. That's the standard approach used when the question of illicit drug use comes up. If you don't agree with my view, is there some other ways that would work :-).
 
Re: How can the individual have respect for so called \"Drug Enforcement\"..

That is true if you think the "user" type population would be content doing something legal. Make it legal and they will make something much more stimulating! There is a whole host of possibilities. If there was not a whole spectrum out there, to profit from, then legalising alcohol should have been the answer!

The key is to draw the line in the sand somewhere and police it. If we all lived 200 miles from each other and cars did not exist then far more could be legalised. There are some basic premises on which our society is based and one is that you don't have to share space with a mind, that is so far from reality that your very life is in danger.

Legalization is not a cure it is just a movement down a whole progression of possibilities to a permanently insane population.
 
Re: How can the individual have respect for so called \"Drug Enforcemen

The judgemental approach is long overdue - how about it is wrong, it is socially unacceptable and don't do it for starters. Perhaps followed up with some rigid enforcement and punishments that actually cause some major inconveniences.

Before anyone says it won't work, it seems to have had an effect on drink drivers.

The softly softly, treat them as victims and you can't stop them so get them to do it safely approach hasn't worked. Whatever happened to the word no?
 
Re: How can the individual have respect for so called \"Drug Enforcemen

I'm completely fed up and frustrated with professional middle class coke heads. I loathe them. Unfortunately my social circles contain all too many of them. It's easy to condemn smack heads and crack heads living a precarious existance at the very bottom of society, stealing and mugging to feed their habits - but when it comes to 30s / 40s something educated articulate good earners who put this shite up their nostrils, everyone just shrugs and looks as if to say "what's your problem?"

Well, my problem is I DON'T want to spend an evening out with a group where one or two or three keep giggling and sneaking off to come back bright eyed and verbose, high on powder. I DON'T want your exclusive little drugs circle and your oh-so-obvious 'hidden' references and your chemically induced confidence and cleverness and drug-induced superiority, and I DON'T want to be contaminated by your company.

Jeez, this gets me so angry. OK, I'm not such an old fuddy-duddy - I smoked a forest of spliffs when I was in my 20s (old giggly weak stuff - not this instant oblivion stuff that's around these days) but there comes a time to grow up. And I never did hard drugs - and coke is a hard drug.

So, if wealthy articulate middle class yotties are stuffing snow / charlie / coke up their noses while reading this and supporting complaints about customs - well, tough kakke. I'd rather have my own boat torn apart than allow some coke-freak Rupert or Tristram to establish a yottie immunity from aggressive search.

[/rant]
 
Re: How can the individual have respect for so called \"Drug Enforcemen

Drug Enforcement = Jobs for the boys. Too many vested interests in keeping the Gravy train going, that's even before talking about the criminals.

The only reason that I care that "enforcement" is a complete waste of time (just look at the results), is that it is MY money being spent. Legalise it all, tax it and make the gear sold good quality - of course some folks will move on to the "Next" big (illegal) thing, but when / if they get hooked on the new stuff and face the choice between finding big money for expensive designer drugs or getting good old fashioned smack at a cheap price from a 7-11 then drugees being drugees will invariable go for the easy option.

Of course some folks will die, but everyone has free will - and the death rate overall will be lower due to them having access to quality controlled drugs, but in any case the mortality rate does not bother me I just would prefer anyone taking drugs not to be costing ME money, from "enforcement" and prison (or whatever).

Be good for Tourism as well /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

If the average teenager (or anyone else) can find drugs easily enough then IMHO it shows a) that the War on Drugs is well and truly lost b) that the "enforcement" folks are completely incompetent / have no desire to even try and end the war / that the war is unwinnable. (Kinda sounds like the War on Terror /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif)
 
Re: How can the individual have respect for so called \"Drug Enforcemen

Raedwald. Well said.

I luckily do not have to suffer vacant individuals. My problem is the mess and smell on some boats when they need fixing. We once dropped a big $100K job because of the state of the yacht in the mornings when we came to work. It was our choice to leave. Yacht soon cleaned up its act until the work was finished.
 
Re: How can the individual have respect for so called \"Drug Enforcemen

Nice to see such a breath of clear thinking air round here, do you think there are enough to make a difference though?
 
Re: How can the individual have respect for so called \"Drug Enforcemen

Just for the record, I am none of the above, don't take drugs, never have, and object strongly to funding habits of the people who do, (this includes the costs of enforcement). People have always found a way to their personal hell, nothing you, or I, or anyone else can do about it.

The best we can do is help them when they fall, and it would be done best if they contributed when they bought the stuff.
 
Re: How can the individual have respect for so called \"Drug Enforcement\"..

The implied loss of civil liberties by customs only comes as a surprise to those who have never been to a football match or rode a fast bike. There are certain places in which you sign away your rights to be treated with respect, sounds like you fellas have found a new one.

What I think is really getting to you is the feeling of impotence, its a power thing don't sweat it and do what the man tells you with a smile on your face! At least this way you can be safe in the knowledge you probably just cost the French taxpayer a few grand. Or maybe spend their entire time on board pointing a cam-corder at them?
 
Re: How can the individual have respect for so called \"Drug Enforcemen

Well said. Trouble is, the proponents of the drugs war in our government here in Guernsey have everybody in some sort of moralistic bind whereby they cannot express such an opinion without being accused of being pro-drugs. Consequently this expensive and ineffective nonsense just carries on.
 
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