How can I prevent a Scaled Toilet

robertager1962

robertager1962

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My toilet jammed this morning (Jabsco) and I was blaming my poor son and thought he may have used toilet paper. I was shocked to find the pipes, diverter valve and toilet was absolutely clogged with scale.
I was shocked because I ran all new piping and thoroughly cleaned the toilet last June and was shocked that this should have happened so quickly.
We only ever use the toilet for wee and normally pump at least 10 times. I do have a holding tank but we only really use this when anchored.
I have looked through the forum and many of the posts are for dealing with blocked toilets and also quite old.
Does anyone have any suggestions for prevention please.
I know many suggest the use of white vinegar but I did buy some to stop the limescale but it didn't seem to do anything.
Just one thing we are liveaboards so the heads do get used frequently although anything serious is kept for the shower blocks.

I would welcome any advice.
 
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10 pumps may not be enough. Calculate the volume of the discharge pipe and of the pump chamber, divide one by the other and that will tell you the number of full pumps you need to use each time. I've noticed how much limescale is deposited in the toilet bowl if someone leaves a seawater/ pee mix for a couple of hours - it is amazing how much calcium there is in seawater.
 
Not liveaboards but holiday and weekends usage and the outlet pipe on our similar loo gets excessively scaled up about every 10 years or so on average.

I guess that's about equivalent to once every year or so for a liveaboard.

No solution for your question but my method of clearing it involves removing the pipe and whacking it hard along its length until all the scale falls off inside.

Surprisingly the pipe survives this treatment. Yes it's 35 years old!
 
10 pumps per metre?

Crikey, I've never measured the wriggly beast when whacking the scale out of it, but on on my system that could be as much as 20 to 30 pumps. Rather more than the out of sight, out of mind approach of some crew...

Would an electric loo work better, can it be set to discharge a particular volume?
 
Graham376 said:
Problem like that in such a short time is definitely lack of flushing. I replaced our aft heads pipe a few weeks ago, it had done about 10 years service, living on board 7/12. If flushing with salt water then 8 - 10 pumps per metre of pipe, fresh water needs fewer.
Click to expand...
I though it was 5 pumps a meter! I have as good as 5 meters in my hose (if I had not changed it a couple of times I would have guessed it would be 3 meters max).
 
JABSCO SAYS....
When the bowl is empty, Open (
769b.jpg
) the Flush Control again, and continue to pump until all waste has either left the boat, or reached the holding tank (allow 7 complete up/down strokes per metre (yard) length of discharge pipework).
 
robertager1962 said:
My toilet jammed this morning (Jabsco) and I was blaming my poor son and thought he may have used toilet paper. I was shocked to find the pipes, diverter valve and toilet was absolutely clogged with scale.
I was shocked because I ran all new piping and thoroughly cleaned the toilet last June and was shocked that this should have happened so quickly.
We only ever use the toilet for wee and normally pump at least 10 times. I do have a holding tank but we only really use this when anchored.
I have looked through the forum and many of the posts are for dealing with blocked toilets and also quite old.
Does anyone have any suggestions for prevention please.
I know many suggest the use of white vinegar but I did buy some to stop the limescale but it didn't seem to do anything.
Just one thing we are liveaboards so the heads do get used frequently although anything serious is kept for the shower blocks.

I would welcome any advice.
Click to expand...

As others have said .... not enough flushing.

Bacteria act on nitrogen compounds in the small amounts of urine not flushed away to produce ammonia. Ammonia raises the pH of the water , water which contains quite high concentrations of calcium and magnesium bicarbonate. When the pH is raised the soluble bicarbonates become insoluble carbonates which are deposited as scale.

More flushing to get rid of the urine will solve the problem. A final flush with fresh water will also help because it will contain lower concentrations of bicarbonates.

Regular cleaning with a stronger acid than vinegar will remove any scale that does form. Vinegar is a a dilute solution of ethanoic acid which is a very weak acid. It is too dilute and too weak to be effective unless used every time the toilet is used to prevent the increase in pH.
 
Star-Lord said:
I though it was 5 pumps a meter! I have as good as 5 meters in my hose (if I had not changed it a couple of times I would have guessed it would be 3 meters max).
Click to expand...

The one I changed recently is also 5 meters, it wasn't blocked but obvious from pump pressure that it was reducing in bore. Having had to change a blocked one in the past, I would rather do it a bit early :) With that length of pipe, we don't follow the pumps/metre rule every flush but I usually do when turning in for the night and always with fresh water when leaving the boat for extended periods. Have tried running acid through pipes in the past but all it did was turn the joker inside out and produce lots of bubbles and gas.
 
We have 2 X RM 69 heads (closely resembles Jabsco); we pump a minimum of 25 strokes even after pee. When on the hard, we flush with fresh water the we fill the toilet bowl with white vinegar and pump it into the pipes.... amazing what comes out upon next flush when we get into the water again. An alternative to vinegar is brick cleaner.

No deposit buildup.
 
James_Calvert said:
Crikey, I've never measured the wriggly beast when whacking the scale out of it, but on on my system that could be as much as 20 to 30 pumps. Rather more than the out of sight, out of mind approach of some crew...
Click to expand...
You really left that one open for some very crude replies :eek:
Not that I would ever edit your post & make any;)
 
Well I have a plan today. The diverter valve is choked with scale so I am going to remove 4 lumps and drop each one into a glass and add respectively harpic, white vinegar, de-scaler and normal vinegar. I can't get brick cleaner as only supermarkets are open here and we can see what effect they have.
Luckily the scale is quite soft so I have managed to clear them but will ned to try and look inside the holding tank. Unfortunately the marina now lock the toilet block between 9pm and 8.30am so the loo may be an essential bit of kit. Not sure I am up to using a poo bag again ;-(
 

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VicS said:
As others have said .... not enough flushing.

Bacteria act on nitrogen compounds in the small amounts of urine not flushed away to produce ammonia. Ammonia raises the pH of the water , water which contains quite high concentrations of calcium and magnesium bicarbonate. When the pH is raised the soluble bicarbonates become insoluble carbonates which are deposited as scale.

More flushing to get rid of the urine will solve the problem. A final flush with fresh water will also help because it will contain lower concentrations of bicarbonates.

Regular cleaning with a stronger acid than vinegar will remove any scale that does form. Vinegar is a a dilute solution of ethanoic acid which is a very weak acid. It is too dilute and too weak to be effective unless used every time the toilet is used to prevent the increase in pH.
Click to expand...

Vic, what is the name of that reaction process? I remember it was posted here many years ago but I cannot remember the name.
 
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