How bad are these blisters?

[Cosmographer]

Hello all,

So I'm about to buy a 45 footer that has been surveyed and has undergone sea trials. Everything went well, but I am concerned about the surveyor's reports of blisters. After being in the sea for 18 years, the surveyor noted several blisters had developed, one of which had popped. He of course recommended about $11,000 of repair work to basically redo the entire hull while my broker said that these are very minor and do not need any work for quite awhile. Neither are objective opinions (both have a vested interest in their positions), so I thought I'd check to see what experts here thought.

Here are the surveyor's pics of the blisters:

Appreciate any opinions!

 

[grumpy_o_g]

Hello all,

So I'm about to buy a 45 footer that has been surveyed and has undergone sea trials. Everything went well, but I am concerned about the surveyor's reports of blisters. After being in the sea for 18 years, the surveyor noted several blisters had developed, one of which had popped. He of course recommended about $11,000 of repair work to basically redo the entire hull while my broker said that these are very minor and do not need any work for quite awhile. Neither are objective opinions (both have a vested interest in their positions), so I thought I'd check to see what experts here thought.

Here are the surveyor's pics of the blisters:

Appreciate any opinions!

Speaking as someone who doesn't even own a boat I'll stick my t'uppenorth in. If I was looking for a boat like yours and it made my shortlist I'd subtract the cost of a company like Osmotech doing a full "repair" from my offer. I've put repair in inverted commas as the boat isn't likely to sink - but it's going to be a lot harder to sell on with those blisters.

 

[Greg2]

+1

Received wisdom is that not boat has ever sunk as a result of osmosis but it is sensible to have an eye on re-sale. A 'proper' repair job would be a good thing together with epoxy coating the hull to restrict further osmosis. That may require a period of drying out although I think some of the professional companies use big heated pads to speed up the drying process.

I guess it depends upon how badly you want that particular boat and whether there are others of the same make and model around. They may have similar issues of course.......

 

[scubaman]

We were in a similar situation some time ago and withdrew from the deal, as in our case there were other severe problems present as well.

Look at it this way: if you have the repairs done properly, you'll end up having a better than new hull. If you now buy a boat of a similar age with no blisters showing yet, you'll probably have the same issue ahead of you in five years time. If you can knock down the price enough and like the boat otherwise, go for it. Come the re-sale time, your have the upper hand against other similar boats with potential osmosis problems.

All IMHO, of course.

What boat is it, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Fusebox]

I had a look at a boat with blisters a couple of years ago, and discussed the solution with the owner.
The blisters were about the same as in the pictures. He went for a complete professional hull repair, stripped the gelcoat and sanded out all the blisters.
A costly repair.

When I saw the boat after the gelcoat was stripped and the blisters sanded out, I was fairly sure that it would have been an easy job to just grind out each blister, without stripping the entire hull, and repair each one as you would a normal GRP repair.
The boat did not have any delamination issues, as the blisters were only superficial, contained and to a depth of maybe 2-4 millimeters.

I'd suggest that you try out a simple repair or two, to see the extent of the blisters. Go for the bigger ones. As someone said above, these blisters rarely sink a boat, and you are not likely to make it any worse by checking a blister or two yourself.

That is, if you buy the boat

Good luck.

 

[sea-commander]

Is it sure that these blisters are definitively osmosis?
Are they dry, or do they smell badly?

Regarding the pictures I'd say the blisters look quite big. Maybe it could be some layers of anti-fouling which is partly loosen from the gelcoat?

Sorry for bad spelling...

Chris

 

[Cosmographer]

Thanks for the input so far. (by the way, the boat is a Dyna).

Here is more info directly from the survey:
"Anti fouling was found in satisfactory condition. Small amount of paint blisters were noted on the port and starboard underwater external hull below chines. One blister was burst and the blister was formed beneath the primer coating. There were no visible signs of hull deterioration."

The surveyor recommended the following which would cost around $11k:
"it is advisable to strip the underwater external hull down to gelcoat surface, clean the hull with freshwater, dry out, seal with five layers of epoxy primer (International Paint – Gelshield 200) and two layers of anti fouling (International Paint – Micro Extra)"

The broker thinks that while this is good, it is overkill and a simple anti-fouling right over the blisters next year would be just fine.

 

[dragoon]

If the boat is otherwise sound, and is the craft you really want to buy, I'd just make sure that the cost of repair is reflected in your purchase price. As others have said, it won't sink, but it does make a boat more difficult to sell (at least you'll have to discount as well when you come to sell it).

My boat has some blisters that developed since I bought it. I don't plan to do anything about it. All GRP boats will suffer from osmosis at some point in their life - some earlier than others. As long as the cost of repair is considered somewhere in the purchase/sale of the boat, I personally consider it of no importance.

IMO, it's machinery costs that become a reality during the ownership of a motorboat - Osmosis won't make a difference to any days boating.

 

[Mr Googler]

The broker thinks that while this is good, it is overkill and a simple anti-fouling right over the blisters next year would be just fine.

I must buy my next boat from that broker

I agree the surveyor will go to the extreme but that's what you want isn't it. Worse case scenario with best repair recommended. Why not renegotiate now the survey has thrown up this "worrying" problem

 

[benjenbav]

To be honest, I think your surveyor is suggesting an improvement. Probably a sensible one but nevertheless an improvement.

If I have understood the position correctly, it is common ground that the blisters are paint not gelcoat.

It is suggested that the paint is removed.

But, what your surveyor is also suggesting is that, having taken the paint off, it is worth taking advantage of the bare hull to coat it with epoxy before re-antifouling, which sounds like a good idea. But one which will have the vendor muttering about apples and oranges and asking maybe you'd like bigger engines and a blowjob thrown into the deal.

Well yes, of course...

 

[jfm]

Yes, but READ THE CONTRACT!

To be honest, I think your surveyor is suggesting an improvement. Probably a sensible one but nevertheless an improvement.

If I have understood the position correctly, it is common ground that the blisters are paint not gelcoat.

It is suggested that the paint is removed.

But, what your surveyor is also suggesting is that, having taken the paint off, it is worth taking advantage of the bare hull to coat it with epoxy before re-antifouling, which sounds like a good idea. But one which will have the vendor muttering about apples and oranges and asking maybe you'd like bigger engines and a blowjob thrown into the deal.

Well yes, of course...

+1. If they are paint blisters they are nowt. However, some of this discussion might miss the point.

You have executed a contract, right? It says (I guess) the boat will be surveyed and that defects reported in the survey allow you to walk away if major and allow a price adjustment if minor. Regardless of what we all think aobut these bisters being trivial, you have a surveyors report saying £11k repair. Read the contract and see exactly what it says must happen in these circs. Then, you probably need to go to the seller prodding the contract and say the contractual price adjustment mechanism has come into play and he must take a haircut. You might end up part way between £11k and nowt, which is a nice result for you.

Just to be really clear here, the fact that the broker or i or anyone else thinks the blisters are trivial is not the point. All that matters is WHAT THE CONTRACT SAYS. If it says in effect "price to be adjusted based on survey report" then that's wat you have to do, and the broker's opinions are largely irrelevant becuase we are past the "buy/not buy negotiations" stage and we are into the "perform the contract" stage

 

[Cosmographer]

The seller was willing to budge another $6k on the price, so that should make up for some of the cost. He won't go beyond that because:
1) The price was already negotiated down from $178k to $165k
2) It's an 18 year old boat and some "minor" blisters come with the territory

I'm tempted to go ahead with the purchase because it seems like these blisters won't cause any permanent damage in the near future. Is this accurate?

Since repairing the hull as recommended by the surveyor still doesn't guarantee against future blisters, I'm thinking it might be best to do the stripping/painting when I get ready to sell the boat.

Thanks for all the responses. Some very helpful information here.

 

[Fusebox]

Out of curiosity, what kind of boat is it ? Is it located in warm water (caribbean/mediterranean) or seasonal temperatures ?

 

[Cosmographer]

It's a Dyna 45. The location is in Hong Kong so it's in the water all year long. (in the winter, the temp might get as low as 50°F... not sure how cold the water gets tho)

 

[Lakesailor]

The surveyor hasn't actually said the gel coat is blistered. Just that the blisters have formed beneath the primer.
That means a strip to the gel coat and a proper antifoul should be sufficient.
As JFM says, if the contract is as he suggests you have everything on your side.
Just make sure you also have a decent contract with whoever strips the hull. I know someone who left the yard to strip his cat for antifouling and came back to find they had stripped the gelcoat!

 

[benjenbav]

I know someone who left the yard to strip his cat for antifouling and came back to find they had stripped the gelcoat!

We thought we'd done quite well managing to give ours a bath.

 

[Bobc]

$11k sounds a bit excessive to srip the paint off, epoxy, prime, and antifoul. I would have thought that you should be able to get the hull blasted clean for about $2k, and then either re-paint it yourself for about $2k of materials, or pay someone a "sensible" amount to do it for you.

What I would do is go back to the boat with a scraper, and scrape off a few of the bigger blisters. If the gelcoat underneath is ok, then take the $6.5k off and have fun with it.

 

[Tranona]

Splitting the difference seems a reasonable compromise. somewhat surprised there is no mention from the surveyor of moisture readings that would indicate more extensive problems. The complete trip and epoxy is probably overkill to deal with the bilsters. Provided the moisture readings are satisfactory, localised repair of the blisters would seem more appropriate.

 

[squadron]

$11k sounds a bit excessive to srip the paint off, epoxy, prime, and antifoul. I would have thought that you should be able to get the hull blasted clean for about $2k, and then either re-paint it yourself for about $2k of materials, or pay someone a "sensible" amount to do it for you.

What I would do is go back to the boat with a scraper, and scrape off a few of the bigger blisters. If the gelcoat underneath is ok, then take the $6.5k off and have fun with it.

are you sure he doesnt mean hong kong dollars????? if he does then its less than 1k sterling

 

[stearman65]

Osmosis

I've had 4 boats, the first was 10 years old, surveyed clean as it had been treated recently. The second surveyed clean, but when I sold it 6 months later, surveyed with extensive osmosis. Tackled the original surveyor through the RYA but didn't get anywhere, just managed to get the price I paid originally. The third surveyed with slight osmosis in the area above the propellor, got 3K off the asking price & sailed her for 3 years without treatment, sold her with the osmosis for 3K more than paid. The 4th I surveyed myself as the boat was in Corsica & professional costs prohibitive. No sign of osmosis, sailed her in the Med' for 3 years, surveyd with slight osmosis by new buyer, lost 6K on the sale.
None of my boats sank or suffered any structural problems in my ownership. Incidentally, there are at least 2 types of osmosis, one is water borne, one is resin borne, resin blisters usually smell of peardrops when popped.
Stearman65