Hove to, under way.....?!?!?

[StellaGirl]

I was asked this question yesterday.....

"If a yacht is hove to is it under way or making way. I believe that with sails up and a degree of forward motion it must be making way?."

Your views please!.....


<hr width=100% size=1>Its 11.59am - lets open the beers...

 

[Goodge]

I would say that it is under way , ie not moored or anchored and because it will make a certain amount of movement it is also making way.

So I will say it is 'under way AND making way'.

However as the intention is probably to remain in one spot it's probably not making way very much.

Ok I'm ready to be shot down as this is bound to lead to one of those Colreg type threads where everybody has a different opinion.



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[Rowana]

It's Hove To !


I believe that to be "making way" implies moving, i.e, with engine or sail, and is a deliberate action.

To be Hove To, is again a deliberate action such that you DON'T move, except natural drift.

Others may disagree (They usually do !!)


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[StugeronSteve]

I didn't think the col regs differentiate between under way and making way, infact, I'm not sure that making way even gets a mention.

To my understanding a hove to yacht is a sailing boat and should be treated as such, unless displaying not under command marks, or similar. I was once advised to try to heave to on a stbd tack, as this will minimise the likelihood of having one's tea break disturbed.

<hr width=100% size=1>Think I'll draw some little rabbits on my head, from a distance they might be mistaken for hairs.

 

[jrt]

I believe that Goodge has got it right as it is moving very slowly, but still moving. But just to stir it up a bit. . . What is the situation when you are lying to a sea anchor, not a drogue.

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[bedouin]

The first question is "does it matter?" The only circumstance I can think where it makes a difference is the lights shown by a power driven vessel.

However, if forced to chose I would say it was not making way. A vessel that is drifting with wind or tide would not be under way. I would say that a hove to vessel was in the same situation.

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[Goodge]

From a practical point of view I would agree with you.

I would say that a vessel 'hove to' is not really 'making way' although it may be moving slighly with wind or tide.

Mind you I have been 'hove to' prior to a race and have had a leeward boat shouting 'up up' at me claiming I was windward boat and had to keep clear.

I replied that we weren't actually sailing at the time but was told that it didn't matter.
Windward boat keeps clear I suppose regardless of 'hove to' or not


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[jimi]

Rule 3(i)
The word "underway" means that a vessel is not at anchor, or made fast to the shore, or aground.


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[StugeronSteve]

That's the way I've always understood it. Heave to with the boom out on the port side and you will only have to give way to stbd tack boats to leeward, plus vessels NUC and RiAtM, fishing, etc. etc.

<hr width=100% size=1>Think I'll draw some little rabbits on my head, from a distance they might be mistaken for hairs.

 

[StugeronSteve]

As Bedouin points out, there is a distinction between the lights and sounds to be displayed/made by a power driven vessel when underway, but not making way. (Rule 35 or36?)

<hr width=100% size=1>Think I'll draw some little rabbits on my head, from a distance they might be mistaken for hairs.

 

[oldharry]

I Love the English language.....

.....It is so precise, yet so confusing!

A vessel which is hove to is still 'under way' for Colregs, even thought not necessarily 'making way'.

A boat or vessel can be in one of three states: 'Made fast' by whatever means, so that it is not able to move. 'Under way' means that regardless of movement or lack of it the vessel is under command, and 'not made fast'. 'Adrift' when the vessel is 'not made fast' and 'not under command'. A vessel aground is also fast - even though she has not been intentionally 'made fast'. (I do love the English language - the more firmly aground she is the more she is 'fast'.....!)

'Making way' is when a vessel is under command and moving in relation to fixed objects. So a vessel may be 'under way' against a strong current, but not 'making way' over the ground against it and even if she is being swept back by the current and losing ground, she is still 'under way'

And how do you tell the difference in the spoken word between 'Anchors away' i.e the anchor being dropped, and 'anchor aweigh' meaning that it is hanging on its line, but clear of the ground when being raised?

So lets weigh anchor when we get under way, and see if we can find the way to the way point, but if we are not making way over the ground the shout is 'anchors away...!'

Unless of course you decide to heave to, and once hove to you may lose way without losing the way, while remaining under way....

... oh dear which 'way' is the pub?

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[Salty John]

Colregs state that a vessel is underway when it is not at anchor, made fast to the shore or aground. I suppose that leaves the sea anchor question open to debate, but in the event of litigation following a collision I would not want to have to argue that the deployment of a sea anchor constituted being anchored. A pretty unlikely scenario I grant you! I've always assumed being hove-to is being underway and have, therefore, always maintained a watch.

John

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[jimi]

Basically if its not attached to the ground, its underway, if its moving its making way ..IMHO, if hove to will be moving albeit slowly ergo making way.

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[StugeronSteve]

eggsackerly /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

<hr width=100% size=1>Think I'll draw some little rabbits on my head, from a distance they might be mistaken for hairs.

 

[Skysail]

Colregs make no attempt to differentiate whether a sail or motor vessel is under way or making way - except in restricted visibility (Rule 35) when a motor vessel makes two long sounds - I am stopped in fog. At night you could not say if a sailing boat head to wind is making way or not. Normally the best you can say is that they are under way.

Other vessels (NUC, RAM, Fishing) show nav lights to show they are making way at night. I suppose it is because it is important to know whether such craft are moving in the course of their business. CBD is treated as a motor vessel. Yachtmaster shore based students find that this needs a very clear explanation!

NB 'Making way' is moving through the water, so most sailing boats will have at least some forward motion when hove to. But based on the Colregs it's an academic question.

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[Rowana]

Re: I Love the English language.....

It's the beauty of our language which makes speech recognition computers almost impossible!

For example-

I rode down the road on my bike, while my friend rowed down the river !


. . . And I agree with your last remark as well. Soon be knocking off time . . .

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[graham]

Re: I Love the English language.....

Underway means afloat and not anchored ,moored or attatched to the shore by anything.

Making way means progressing through the water.

Hove too would be underway but debatable if making way or not.My boat makes about 2 knots Hove too other boats are almost stopped.

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[doris]

That is a much more interesting question. Just how slowly was the leeward boat going to call 'up up' to a hove to boat. Mind you I can think of a few rather pedantic 'racers' who probably do this all the time!!

<hr width=100% size=1>Real men do it 2handed.

 

[peterb]

There are other points of difference. Fishing vessels (trawling or not) only show side and stern lights when making way through the water, although they show their red or green over white and any steming lights whenever they are under way. Vessels not under command only show side and stern lights when making way through the water, but don't show steaming lights at all. Vessels restricted in ability to manoeuvre only show steaming, side and stern lights when making way through the water. It's a minefield out there!

Oh yes, mine clearance vessels, although by definition they are restricted in manoeuvre, show steaming, side and stern lights all the time when under way, together with their three greens.

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[geoffatstanpit]

Re: I Love the English language.....

Surely the anchor is only away if you forgot to make the cable fast?

Aweigh is clear of the bottom

Geoff

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