Horrific powerboat in Croatia - autopilot assisted accident?

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Deleted User YDKXO

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Some of you might have read about a horrific collision between a powerboat and yacht in Croatia http://www.yachtingmonthly.com/news/529487/two-sailors-killed-by-out-of-control-motorboat and a local report here http://www.croatiantimes.com/news/General_News/2011-08-17/21226/Croatian_businessman_kills_Italian_couple_in_sailing_accident. This happened off Primosten which is very close to Marina Frapa in which I moor my boat. The strong rumour around Frapa is that the cause of this collision wasn't a steering failure at all but due to the helmsman either deliberately or inadvertently engaging the autopilot on his boat which would have effectively disabled the steering. Apparently, the helmsman panicked when he found that his boat would not respond to the wheel and did not have the presence of mind either to disengage the autopilot or simply to throttle back.
Unfortunately in Croatia there seem to be a few local and East European boat owners with more money than experience and who's main aim is to impress their usually considerably younger, pneumatic girlfriends with their boat handling skills. It seems that until recently a boating licence could be bought in Croatia for less than €50 and there seems to be little or no encouragement to get further training or qualifications
 
judging by the numbers of Police crawling all over the boats, the unfortunate sailing people seem to have some friends in high places. The translation of the moboist's reasons for the accident do make one wonder about his skill levels, though.

A very sad event, but if it results in a tightening up of controls and procedures, then it will not have been in vain.
 
Deleted User said:
l'escargot, I think its inappropriate to be trying to score points on this particular subject
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true - but then again there are threads all over the place on this so why start another at all until all the facts have been established?

a quick google of the mobo helmsman will find a wealth if background info, including a background of non boating incidents.

whilst the speed of the boat, the speed limit of the area the impact took place and the relative impact angles are all fairly well agreed and outlined, the suggestion that the helmsman had been drinking, that the crew was distracting the helmsman, that neither the helm nor crew knew anything was happening until they had hit the yacht (and everything they have subsequently stated should be taken with a pinch of salt) - well these are all hearsay currently.
 
l'escargot said:
The man is an idiot and dangerous one at that.
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totally agree without reservation.

However, pointing out (the obvious) I feel wasn't the intent behind your "idiot mobo" post, which is why the post wasn't respected - by me anyway.

I guess for you the one where the tanker hit the yacht in the solent should also be entitled "Idiot motorboater runs down yotties"

I'm of a more balanced opinion which is that there are idiots in all types of boats. Thankfully they are few and far between.

If I misunderstood the intent behind your statement then please accept my apologies.
 
It's a whole different culture

It happened just outside my home marina and the damage looked truly horrible until they covered up the worst bits.

Very little to do with mobo skills versus raggie skills, in my opinion. The skills of both types are often dangerously inept round there. The difference is that the speed of motorboats makes that much more dangerous. I was in about a dozen close encounters in the same stretch the next day - although I was more annoyed than alarmed as I hadn't yet heard about the collision. All ploughed straight lines at high speed between islets just threading a course between slow sailing and open fishing boats.

I hope that the publicity will make local users a bit more aware that it is possible to hit the slow moving bits of scenery around them. I would never expect them to even know there are any col regs.

Even with these mobos flying through there was one sailing boat sailing across the channel pulling their two giggling kids along behind them in lifejackets. When one of the kids slipped off the rope the dad started the motor and reversed back against the force of the sails to throw the rope at the trailing kid. Meanwhile while his other kid grabbed the swimming ladder to stop himself going under the stern.

Even with a lot of boats, rocks, poorly sheltered harbours and often high winds the sea is just seen as a playground without consequences for many. It's just so pleasant most of the time there is no sense of danger.
 
Elessar said:
totally agree without reservation.

However, pointing out (the obvious) I feel wasn't the intent behind your "idiot mobo" post, which is why the post wasn't respected - by me anyway.

I guess for you the one where the tanker hit the yacht in the solent should also be entitled "Idiot motorboater runs down yotties"

I'm of a more balanced opinion which is that there are idiots in all types of boats. Thankfully they are few and far between.

If I misunderstood the intent behind your statement then please accept my apologies.
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No, the yotties in the tanker post could be seen as idiots but who only put themselves at risk and the OP was quite happy to highlight that in the title of his post "Idiot yottie gets run down by tanker".

But when a dangerous idiot in a motorboat kills two yotties his post title doesn't make any such derogatory reference and even goes as far to offer a possible excuse for the incident: "Horrific powerboat in Croatia - autopilot assisted accident?" - there, blameless. The idiot yottie gets run down by a tanker, the poor motorboater accidently switches on his autopilot and ends up in an horrific accident, totally disregarding the fact that he has killed 2 people.

Seems to be a bit of an inconsistent approach and not an attitude that encourages respect from other posters either - immediate blame if a yottie, but must have been an accident because it was a motorboat.

I felt entitled to comment on it just as you obviously feel entitled to comment on my post.

Yes, there are idiots in both camps, a fact that the OP doesn't seem to appreciate, not just in these threads but others too.
 
l'escargot said:
No, the yotties in the tanker post could be seen as idiots but who only put themselves at risk and the OP was quite happy to highlight that in the title of his post "Idiot yottie gets run down by tanker".

But when a dangerous idiot in a motorboat kills two yotties his post title doesn't make any such derogatory reference and even goes as far to offer a possible excuse for the incident: "Horrific powerboat in Croatia - autopilot assisted accident?" - there, blameless. The idiot yottie gets run down by a tanker, the poor motorboater accidently switches on his autopilot and ends up in an horrific accident, totally disregarding the fact that he has killed 2 people.

Seems to be a bit of an inconsistent approach and not an attitude that encourages respect from other posters either - immediate blame if a yottie, but must have been an accident because it was a motorboat.

I felt entitled to comment on it just as you obviously feel entitled to comment on my post.

Yes, there are idiots in both camps, a fact that the OP doesn't seem to appreciate, not just in these threads but others too.
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:D:D
 
Focussing purely on the technical side of things, imho it is fundamentally dangerous to have an autopilot system that cannot sense when a human being is trying to override it.

Car cruise control systems disconnect when they detect driver braking, but maybe that isn't the right model: aircraft systems can be overridden with human input, then return to "plan a" when the human stops interacting (so long as the human didn't cause a disconnect).

If it's possible to have a human battling the hydraulics on the steering or not responding to throttle input, then that's an accident just waiting to happen. On a mobo, a multi-ton accident travelling at 20kts. A small warning light that says "autopilot engaged" and the requirement to press a button to turn it off doesn't cut the mustard.
 
l'escargot said:
But when a dangerous idiot in a motorboat kills two yotties his post title doesn't make any such derogatory reference and even goes as far to offer a possible excuse for the incident: "Horrific powerboat in Croatia - autopilot assisted accident?" - there, blameless. The idiot yottie gets run down by a tanker, the poor motorboater accidently switches on his autopilot and ends up in an horrific accident, totally disregarding the fact that he has killed 2 people.

----------8<----------

Yes, there are idiots in both camps, a fact that the OP doesn't seem to appreciate, .
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really? "boat owners with more money than experience and who's main aim is to impress their usually considerably younger, pneumatic girlfriends with their boat handling skills" is a defence and renders them blameless???

The post brought new information from a local perspective and was interesting therefore. In no way did it seek to defend IMHO. The forum titles don't have to be written like a red top front page, some people bother to read what the post actually says before jumping to inflammatory criticism.
 
l'escargot said:
No, the yotties in the tanker post could be seen as idiots but who only put themselves at risk and the OP was quite happy to highlight that in the title of his post "Idiot yottie gets run down by tanker".

But when a dangerous idiot in a motorboat kills two yotties his post title doesn't make any such derogatory reference and even goes as far to offer a possible excuse for the incident: "Horrific powerboat in Croatia - autopilot assisted accident?" - there, blameless. The idiot yottie gets run down by a tanker, the poor motorboater accidently switches on his autopilot and ends up in an horrific accident, totally disregarding the fact that he has killed 2 people.

Seems to be a bit of an inconsistent approach and not an attitude that encourages respect from other posters either - immediate blame if a yottie, but must have been an accident because it was a motorboat.

I felt entitled to comment on it just as you obviously feel entitled to comment on my post.

Yes, there are idiots in both camps, a fact that the OP doesn't seem to appreciate, not just in these threads but others too.
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Whilst I can see your point about thread titles and apparent 'bias' against Yotties, I didn't actually read it that way at the time. I think the difference for me is that we had video footage of the 'Yottie Idiot', but just hearsay for the 'Mobo Idiot'. You can't be liable for commenting on the obvious, but to apportion blame on 2nd hand media reports is a little different. It would appear that the Mobo was grossly negligent, but with neither video evidence nor witness perspective from the victims, we have to wait for the authorities to establish what happened and attribute responsibility. I personally don't believe a word of the 'unable to steer' cobblers and think it far more likely they were simply not keeping adequate lookout and as such should have the book thrown at them. However, I wasn't there and as such would rather wait for the result of investigations! On that basis the first one was an idiot and the second one probably more so, but innocent until proven guilty...
 
Having read several threads on the 'Yotie run down by tanker' It seems he might have made some bad decisions that resulted in the video. The running down at speed by the mobo can have no excuse. Not dissimilar to a case in the US where a mobo ran down a yacht while doing 40+kts AT NGHT on a lake.The yacht owner's wife died. The helmsman on the yacht was prosecuted for being slightly over the (revised up) limit, despite there being no wind. Curiously....the mobo driver was not tested for booze until the next day. Some-one forgot.. He happened to be a member of the local police and had a female with him, not his wife.
At least here, the police seem to be on the ball.
 
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