Horn/Hailer

laika

laika

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at a shade over 12m, my boat should have a "whistle" but like many 12m sailing boats it doesn't. I'd like one, not only to be legal, but also to be able to use it for what it's supposed to be for. Requirements are:
* Should be IMO compliant sound-wise (or at least look pukka enough for an official without a sound level meter)
* Can be wired to my VHF for fog sound patterns
* Can be activated by button at the helm
* Can't be madly expensive

I spoke to Piers who posts here at last year's southampton boat show, and whilst he's a very nice man with a lovely product, even the bottom of the line kahlenbergs are out of my price bracket

Could put up with a tacky plastic hailer, but don't seem to find detailed specs on their characteristics wrt colregs.
Suggestions? And where do people without a radar scanner to hang it under mount theirs on a sailing boats?
 
So do you want a horn or a loudhailer?

A horn is self-contained - shove 12v at it and it will make a noise, so easy to wire up to a helm button.

A loudhailer is basically just a speaker, so you need something else to generate the beep tone.

VHFs with foghorn facilities expect to be connected to a hailer. They generate the tones (and, indeed, fake bell sounds for when anchored). No good trying to connect these to a horn. However, to manually give your five blasts or whatever will require you to scroll through menus and press buttons on the radio - you can't (on any VHF I've seen) make it do the horn thing from a button at the helm.

I have a VHF with a hailer - fine for fog signals which is why I installed it, but not really practical as a general horn unless you know in advance you'll need it (like the end of the fireworks at Cowes :) ). I have contemplated trying some sort of tone generator kit connected in parallel to the radio, with a changeover relay so only one is connected at once. Pressing a horn button on deck would flip the relay and then activate the tone circuit. Not sure I'll ever get round to trying this though :)

Pete
 
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prv said:
So do you want a horn or a loudhailer?

A horn is self-contained - shove 12v at it and it will make a noise, so easy to wire up to a helm button.

A loudhailer is basically just a speaker, so you need something else to generate the beep tone.
Click to expand...

Fair point. I suppose I thought either that such secondary tone generators would be fairly standard or that the VHFs were just switching power to hoot the horn rather than tone generating. I see the error of my ways :-)

Surely though this must be a common problem: Many VHFs do fog patterns. colregs demands a whistle for 12m+ boat. 12m sailing boats (motorboats always seem to comply) with anything looking like a fixed sound maker are in the minority and if they have something it seems to be either a hailer or a horn, not both

Got enough problems working out where to fix one sound making device, never mind two separate ones.
 
Weve sourced them in the past, indeed, used to have the complete units for sale, they just weren't that popular - the 12volt Hailer with Whistles/Fog/etc, as a dedicated unit - Last I remember it was somewhere in the region of £250 for the unit though.
 
For what it's worth, the boat next to ours on the broker's hardstanding when we bought her, had a long trumpet-shaped chrome horn vaguely like the one Stork linked to above. It was mounted on the mast just below the lower spreader, pointing down at the deck. Seemed like a good way of deafening (or at least seriously annoying) the crew! But I guess the problem is that most horns are directional and on a slow sailing boat you want to emit sound all around you. This would have bounced the sound off the deck in all directions.

My own hailer is tucked in under the radar bracket on the mast, pointing forward and down.

Pete
 
prv said:
Any idea if it has connections for an external button to beep the horn?

Pete
Click to expand...

Unfortunately not Pete, my experience with these was usually just putting a code into the order system and off it went - seen them in the packet, But they just look pretty much like the link there! Never really got round to looking at one in detail....and we don't hold them to stock any more, just order them in if requested.... :(
 
My experience with hailers is that the Radio's don't send out a big enough punch.
We have an ICOM that is supposed to output up to a 30W hailer but frankly the length of wire runs means the losses are significant and the output from the hailer too quiet. As a winter project I am considering fitting a car amp.
 
Sorry to revive an old thread but seems more economical than starting a new one.

I decided (thanks to Talulah for tipping the balance) that I want a horn rather than hailer. Main concern is telling other vessels of my intentions, not shouting at people. Finding something to switch a compressor on/off for fog patterns (oo! Project!) shouldn't be impossible. So the question is:

Air or Electronic?

Electronic is a bit cheaper I think but I already have an air horn compressor wired to a horn button (just no tube or horn). Any advantage of either? And is it a simple enough thing to join air hose without leaks so that unstepping/restepping the mast is simple if the horn(s) are mast mounted?
 
In my (limited) experience, switching a compressor on and off doesn't give sharp, well defined blasts as you would like for signalling. You need a reservoir to feed sufficient pressure at the outset. However, if you can overcome this, there are a variety of quick connects available for hoses which should allow the mast to come down easily.

Rob.
 
rob2 said:
In my (limited) experience, switching a compressor on and off doesn't give sharp, well defined blasts as you would like for signalling.
Click to expand...

+1, especially if there's any significant length of tubing which slows down both the build up and the release of pressure. I'd expect to see a solenoid valve on the horn itself, and a compressor that keeps a reservoir topped up according to the demands of a pressure sensor. To be honest it all sounds a bit OTT for a typical sailing vessel.

Pete
 
prv said:
+1, especially if there's any significant length of tubing which slows down both the build up and the release of pressure. I'd expect to see a solenoid valve on the horn itself, and a compressor that keeps a reservoir topped up according to the demands of a pressure sensor. To be honest it all sounds a bit OTT for a typical sailing vessel.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. Tubing run would be about 15m with one join. Your suggestion would be forget it and go with electronic then?
 
laika said:
Your suggestion would be forget it and go with electronic then?
Click to expand...

I think that's what I'd do, provided I could find a loud enough electric. I don't know what's out there, as I've never really looked. However, I think that Stavros's horns are electric, and they're certainly bloody loud. Except in emergency, the OOW has to make a tannoy announcement before pressing the button, to warn people on deck to cover their ears :D

Pete
 
laika said:
at a shade over 12m, my boat should have a "whistle" but like many 12m sailing boats it doesn't. I'd like one, not only to be legal, but also to be able to use it for what it's supposed to be for. Requirements are:
* Should be IMO compliant sound-wise (or at least look pukka enough for an official without a sound level meter)
* Can be wired to my VHF for fog sound patterns
* Can be activated by button at the helm
* Can't be madly expensive

I spoke to Piers who posts here at last year's southampton boat show, and whilst he's a very nice man with a lovely product, even the bottom of the line kahlenbergs are out of my price bracket

Could put up with a tacky plastic hailer, but don't seem to find detailed specs on their characteristics wrt colregs.
Suggestions? And where do people without a radar scanner to hang it under mount theirs on a sailing boats?
Click to expand...

Hi Laika. 'Very nice man' - thank you!!

Bottom line is that an IMO certified horn is required if you are over 12m loa. That means it must have a certificate of approval for that specific horn from a recognised body.

Sadly, I do not believe there are certified horns less expensive than a Kahlenberg and probably 99% of leisure boats don't have certified horns so you certainly aren't alone.

However, and I must declare an interest, my son's company may (note the may) have some on offer.

The most common place to mount a horn on a yacht is immediately underneath the radar so it doesn't snag the sail. Bear in mind they are LOUD so you really don't want them anywhere near you or your crew's ears.

I'm also unaware of any loud hailing horn that is IMO certified.

Nowadays, I'm retired and in Guernsey, but having seen you post I just had to respond!

All the best - from 'a very nice man'

Piers

BTW, all the COLREG and IMO requirements plus typical FAQs are on his website.
 
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