HMS Victory question...

[MainlySteam]

Have just been looking at an illustrated history of the Royal Navy and in that there is a cut away drawing showing the interior of HMS Victory (the preserved one at Portsmouth). It shows below decks, between the foremast and the mainmast a large capstan, and the same again, below decks, between the mainmast and mizzen mast.

Can anyone tell me what their uses were? I assume, because of their size and that there are two of them, they had both combat and non combat uses, and that other vessels of the time had them too.

Thanks

John

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[Will_M]

Years & years ago, when i was a lad i went round the Victory and if memory serves me well and assuming im thinking of the same thing could they be, amongst other things, for lifting the anchor and such like??

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[Twister_Ken]

Anchor very possibly, but also for doing yo-ho-ho stuff like lifting and lowering topmasts, booms, etc.



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[Metabarca]

Surely the pumps for pumping out bilges?

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[Jacket]

They're for raising anchor. There's not really two seperate capstans, but one large capstan spread over two decks so that its possible to get enough men around them.

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[pvb]

Yes, anchoring, and...

...and it's well worth a visit if you're ever in Portsmouth with a day to spare. The Historic Dockyard tour is excellent. HMS Warrior is in some ways even more interesting than Victory. If you buy a "day tripper" ticket you get a harbour boat trip too, which shows you loads of naval vessels tucked away in odd corners. Fascinating!

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[MainlySteam]

Yes thats right Jacket, they do cover two decks, but if I say there are two sets shown, exactly the same, between both sets of masts (one set between fore and main the other between main and mizzen) my curiosity may be clearer. That is what made me wonder if there was more use for them than for anchor.

They are shown taking up a hell of alot of room in the ship so I can only imagine that they were important. Hauling rigging, hauling engaged ships hard alongside for boarding (I think they still did the boarding bit then) came to mind, but frankly do not know.

John

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[Talbot]

If I recall correctly, the fowd ones are as stated above, for hauling in the anchor, and for lifting and lowering boats, topmasts etc. The aft ones have a similar use for the raising and lowering functions, and are also used as an emergency tiller control.

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[Jacket]

Opps, should have read your post properly.

Possibly, given she was a three decker with a lot of windage, on windy days the anchor rode had to lead around both capstans?

Other possibilities are that the aftermost one was used for raising the large main mast yards from the deck, if they had to be lowered for repairs. Or maybe to help pull the ship over when carreening (sp?).

Somewhere at home I've got a whole pile of bumpf that I was given when I was doing a bit of work on the Victory. I'll dig it out this evening and see if it says anything.

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[Mirelle]

An attempt at an answer

There are two capstans, just as any modern ship has two windlasses, so as to ensure that one is available if an accident occurs to the other one, or if one is under repair.

The capstans provide, in effect, the sole source of hauling power in the ship. They drive an endless loop of heavy cable, which passes round the windlass barrel and round a large block further forward on the same deck as the barrel. The capstan heads extend over two decks to allow more men to get on the bars.

They are used to weigh the anchors, the anchor cable (an even larger hemp rope!) being "nippered" to the endless rope by stoppers applied by the ship's boys (hence "nipper" for small boy) and they are also used for any other heavy hauling tasks, such as warping into a dock or an alongside berth, kedging, as a means of progress in a calm, getting the launch, and other heavy ship's boats, aboard and raising topmasts and lower yards. They can also be used for loading heavy stores and guns, using yard and stay tackles

It is interesting to note that HMS Warrior was built with the same system - the idea of using steam power to replace the capstans did not occur to her designers, and since she is a bigger and heavier ship even than HMS Victory, the work was brutal.

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[Twister_Ken]

The hokey cokey

Ah. That's it, steering by capstan must be the origin of that quaiint British folk dance. I can hear the helm orders being relay-shouted from the quarterdeck now. "You put you left leg in...

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[Mirelle]

Voyol block, Capstan, Nipper....

From William Falconer's Dictionary of The Marine, 1780, which has been put on the Net by an Australian University, at

http://www.jcu.edu.au/aff/history/southseas/

I have corrected the text in some places

VOYOL, (tournevire, Fr.) a large rope used to unmoor, or heave up the anchors of a ship, by transmitting the effort of the capstern to the cables.

This is performed by fastening one part of the voyol to the cable in several places, and by winding another part thereof three or four times about the capstern, which answers the same purpose as if the cable itself were in that manner wound about the capstern; and the voyol being much lighter and more pliant, is infinitely more convenient in this exercise. See the articles CAPSTERN and NIPPER.

If the cable is drawn into the ship by the main capstern, the voyol is used without any block: but if the capstern in the fore part of the ship be employed for this purpose, the voyol usually passes. through a large block attached to the main-mast; and thence communicates with the jear-capstern.


CAPSTERN, or CAPSTAN
CAPSTERN, or CAPSTAN, (cabestan, Fr.) a strong massy column of timber, formed like a truncated cone, and having it's upper extremity pierced with a number of holes to receive the bars or levers. It is let down perpendicularly through the decks of a ship, and is fixed in such manner, that the men, by turning it horizontally with their bars, may perform any work which requires an extraordinary effort.

A capstern is composed of several parts, (see plate II. fig. II.) where A is the barrel, b the whelps, c the drum-head, and d the spindle.

The whelps rise out from the main body of the capstern like buttresses, to enlarge the sweep; so that a greater portion of the cable, or whatever rope encircles the barrel, may be wound about it at one turn, without adding much to the weight of the capstern. The whelps reach downwards from the lower part of the drum-head to the deck.

Plate II. fig. 11 and 12. The drum-head is a broad cylindrical piece of wood, resembling a mill-stone, and fixed immediately above the barrel and whelps. On the outside of this piece are cut a number of square holes parallel to the deck, to receive the bars.

The pivot, or spindle, d, which is shod with iron, is the axis or foot upon which the capstern rests, and turns round in the saucer, which is a sort of iron socket let into a wooden stock or standard, called the step, resting upon, and bolted to the beams.

Besides the different parts of the capstern above explained, it is furnished with several appurtenances, as the bars, the pins, the pawls, the swifter, and the saucer, already described.

The bars are long pieces of wood, or arms, thrust into a number of square holes in the drum-head all round, in which they are as the radii of a circle, or the spokes to the nave of a wheel. They are used to heave the capstern round, which is done by the men setting their breasts against them and walking about, like the machinery of a horse-mill, till the operation is finished.

The pins, e, are little bolts of iron thrust perpendicularly through the holes of the drum-head, and through a correspondent hole in the end of the bar, made to receive the pins when the bars are fixed. They are used to confine the bars, and prevent them from working out as the men heave, or when the ship labours. Every pin is fastened to the drum-head with a small iron chain; and, that the bars may exactly fit their respective holes, they are all numbered.

The pawls, f, fig. 10. are situated on each side of the capstern, being two short bars of iron, bolted at one end through the deck to the beams close to the lower part of the whelps; the other end, which occasionally turns round on the deck, being placed in the intervals of the whelps, as the capstern turns, prevents it from recoiling or turning back by any sudden jerk of the cable as the ship rises on the sea, which might greatly endanger the men who heave. There are also hanging pawls g, g, fig.. 12. used for the same purposes, reaching from the deck above to the drum-head immediately beneath it.

The swifter is a rope passed horizontally through holes in the outer ends of the bars, and drawn very tight: the intent of this is to keep the men heady as they walk round, when the ship rolls, and to give room for a greater number to assist by pulling upon the swifter itself.

The most frequent use of the capstern is to heave in the cable, and thereby remove the ship, or draw up the anchor. It is also used to wind up any weighty body, as the masts, artillery, &c. In merchant-ships it is likewise frequently employed to discharge or take in the cargo, particularly when consisting of weighty materials that require a great exertion of mechanical powers to be removed.

There are commonly two capsterns in a ship of war, the main and the jear capstern; the former of which has two drum-heads, and may be called a double one. This is represented by fig. 12. of plate II. The latter is exhibited in fig. II.

Formerly the bars of the capstern went intirely through the head of it, and consequently were more than twice the length of the present ones; the holes were therefore formed at different heighths, as represented in fig. 10. plate II. But this machine had several inconveniences, such as the persons who heaved at the higher bars incommoding those at the lower ones the bars being lifted or lowered by the persons who heaved at their opposite ends; some of the bars being too high, and others too low, &c. It has therefore been long intirely disused in the navy. Some of these sort of capsterns, however, are still retained in merchant-ships, and are usually denominated crabs. The situation of the bars in a crab, as ready for heaving, is represented in fig. 13. plate II.


NIPPERS, (garcettes de tournevire, Fr.) certain pieces of flat braided cordage, used to fasten the cable to the voyal in a ship of war, when the former is drawn into the ship by mechanical powers applied to the latter.

These nippers are usually six or eight feet in length, according to the size of the cable; and five or six of them are commonly fastened about the cable and voyal at once, in order to be heaved in by the capstern. Those which are furthest aft are always taken off, as the cable approaches the main hatchway; and others are at the same time fastened on, in the fore-part of the ship, to supply their places. The persons employed to bind the nippers about the cable and voyal, are called nipper-men: they are assisted in this office by the boys of the ship, who always supply them with nippers, and receive the ends of those which are fastened, to walk aft with them, and take them off at the proper place, in order to return them to the nipper-men.

I cannot reproduce the illustrations, but I hope that all is now reasonably clear....

(There is no truth in the rumour that Mirelle's anchors are raised in this manner; we have a Reid's windlass, as described by Claud Worth, to do that job!)<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Mirelle on 10/09/2003 11:38 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[Rowana]

Steam, glorious steam

You may jest, but the emergency steering arrangement on a 16,000 tanker of 1950's vintage that I served on was exactly as described.

The normal steering was by hydraulic rams driven by a small compound steam engine!

In an emergency, the hydraulics could be disconnected, and a pulley arrangement connected to the tiller arm. The cables went round various sheaves up to the poop deck (Immediately above the steering flat), then round one of the two aft capstans which were also steam driven. On orders from the bridge, the capstan was turned one way or t'other to pull the tiller over.

Than was a wonderful old ship as most of the auxillaries were steam driven. Great job for the ships leckie! (ME)

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[trevor_loveday]

I think you'll find the answer to this, and other questions about HMS Victory, on www.hms-victory.com/anchorsandcables.htm

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[MainlySteam]

Thanks everyone for the very informative answers and the internet references. I now know what a jeer (or jear) capstan was too - learn something new all the time.

Regarding the comment about visiting Portsmouth to see the "Victory" and others, that is something I would certainly like to do, plus some places, like Greenwich perhaps. While I have been to Europe many times over the years, it has always been on business and UK was not the destination - just transited. Intend to put that omission to rights some time.

John

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[MainlySteam]

Re: Voyol block, Capstan, Nipper....

Andrew - thank you for that reference to the South Seas Project, I was unaware of it. Will have a keen browse through there, especially the Capt'n Cook stuff. Among other things we have Beaglehole's "The Life of Captain James Cook" which is superb reading. One of our favourite places to visit is Ship Cove which was, of course, Cook's "home away from home" on all of his voyages - and a fine place to admire a very competent seaman. Fortunately it is only about 45 nm from us, but through Cook Strait of course (a voyage Cook did not get around to making, for one reason and another - but one being they just about lost their vessel, on The Brothers if memory serves me). Many he touched - through chance or order - were very competent too eg Banks, Bligh, Vancouver.

As an aside, during Tasman's visit to New Zealand, an expansive coastal elevation was drawn which no one has been able to identify the geographic location of until recently. A recent book on Tasman, "The Merchant of the Zeehan" or something similar, I think, as I do not have a copy, proposed that it was a view back from the Eastern side of D'Urville Island looking back across the Northern Cook Strait coast of South Island back as far as the Northern entrance into Queen Charlotte Sound (within which entrance about 6 nm is in fact Ship Cove). While I felt sure, from memory that the writer of the book was correct I am happy to be able to say that on a recent cruise from here in Wellington to Nelson and back, I was able to see that he was certainly so.

Great deal of pleasure being able to visit some of these historic things/places, unfortunately we do not have too many of them out here to do so though.

John

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[davidhand]

Yes and don't forget Portchester Castle just outside Portsmouth with a great little sailing club right next door.


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