HFL (Faryman powered) diesel generator won’t fire up

[NickTrevethan]

I have a little diesel generator on Otium, supplied by HFL.
The genny is built around a Faryman single cylinder raw water-cooled diesel and was not included as inventory when I bought her, so it it works it’s a bonus.
The genset is about 10 years old but is only showing 100 hours use – I know that doesn’t mean much and that gennies tend not to get as much love as they deserve, anyway I am trying to rectifty that.
This weekend I bought a new battery – the one was showing 2 volts, and no amount of charging could help it, and tried to fire the thing up.
The engine turns over easily, although the starter doesn’t sound quite right, but it doesn’t run. There isn’t even a hint of it wanting to run. No coughs, catches or anything.
The water pump is dribbling so needs service and there is water escaping from a spilt rubber exhaust hose too. I will sort that out but only if I can get the thing going.
The cylinder got warm during starting so I reckon there is some compression – probably enough to make vapour go bang, so I am thinking it must be fuel supply.
I spent most of Sunday searching for bleed screws or a little finger lever on the fuel pump, to no avail.
Today I learbed fuel is fed by an electric impellor pump, which the HFL chap I spoke with said was self bleeding
(He was not exactly Mr Charming, ordering me to get to ze point when I was explaining what was done and the symptoms…) So I wasn’t able to get much more help than that.
I guess a filter might be gunked up, or indeed there might be a stopcock I haven’t found yet behind the insulation, but I don’t think so.
So what would the esteemed panel suggest as the first course of action for a relative engine novice like myself?

 

[david_bagshaw]

Check on the injection pump if it has an electric fuel shut off, which perversely when energised lets through a small bleed amount, and when off dumps the lift pump pressure. so if on starting attempt it flows, just pinch the pipe to give the injection pump some lift pump pressure.

next . be certain to bleed well. small diesels are a pain to bleed thoroughly.

loosen at injector and check fuel is being delivered here.

have you found the cold start knob on the injection pump. pull out.

there was a decompression device on ours, turned 180 deg was at the bottom of the pushrod tube.

Have sent you a pm.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Hi, I have the 4KVA model. Its not an HFL at all - HFL denied all knowledge of it despite having the name on the control panel. Its actually a Paguro here is the link to

http://www.advanceyacht.co.uk/products/generators/3000rpm/paguro-4000-generator.html

Advance yachts are very helpful.

I had exactly the same problem when starting - so I dismantled the fuel shut off and cleaned it - it had not been used for quite some time. Note - absolute cleanliness required!

Never had the same problem again. I suspect you may also be able to give it a thwack with a spanner which might just get the insides moving.

It is also worth checking that all the electrical connections on the front of the engines are tight - mine only has chocolate box connectors and they vibrate loose. (nothing to do with the fuel problem though)

 

[Amulet]

My yachting operation is more modest, my boat being propelled by a Farymann of the same family. It is self-bleeding. It's worth listening for injector squeak. Perhaps irrelevant if you are sure you have compression, but on mine the compression can be switched off by turning a little thingy beside the starter handle, so it could be turned off (45 degree position). (There is a little key on the starter handle for this.) It can also be turned to vertical which turns the compression off but to come on after 8 cranks. This is designed for hand starting, but is a great boon for electric starting with a near flat battery.

These long stroke single cylinder engines dance around madly when running, and will shake almost anything loose over time. I also wouldn't recommend them form propulsion of a small yacht - it's like having a cement mixer in your living room.

I have found Farymann to be extremely helpful and polite if addressed in German, but probably they find it harder in a second language. I have certainly caused many an insult through linguistic incompetence rather than intent in languages other than English.

 

[NickTrevethan]

I had called their UK number beside my German mostly forgotten in the past 30 years would never be good enough - es gebrochen ist...
Even Norwegian, where I am fluent would stretch my vocabulary

This one is on rubber mounts and the first time it turned I was a little alarmed. but when it didn't jump off the bearers I calmed down


I have since found a loose cable - which might well energise the pump, but I cannot locate a connecter for it in range of its arc. I was originally tuck in out the way and no apparently loose.

 

[Chris_Robb]

I had called their UK number beside my German mostly forgotten in the past 30 years would never be good enough - es gebrochen ist...
Even Norwegian, where I am fluent would stretch my vocabulary

This one is on rubber mounts and the first time it turned I was a little alarmed. but when it didn't jump off the bearers I calmed down

I have since found a loose cable - which might well energise the pump, but I cannot locate a connecter for it in range of its arc. I was originally tuck in out the way and no apparently loose.

Nick - forget calling Ferryman - Advanced yacht bunch are a great help.

When you turn the ignition on the pump is energised - you should hear a click as the electromagnet moves the valve - it slides up and down in its housing. This is also the point at which you might help it on its way with a gentle tap from the spanner.

There are 2 points to check - the fuel pump - a large tubular thing on the water pump end of the engine and along side the fuel shut off valve. I would bet it is the fuel shut off valve which you can check by cracking off the pipes in progression.

The Pagura is a well engineered machine and worth spending time on. even though they are direct salt water cooled, they are cast iron with the alternator held in a stainless steel water jacket, unlike some of the others around who used Aluminium on the alternator water jacket with obvious results!

 

[NickTrevethan]

Poked around a little more. What I suspect is the lift pump a lump of metal on the left front if looking from the alternator end. It has the cables running into it and no other connection. The loose cable has nowhere obvious to go still!

Cheers

Nick

Hi, I have the 4KVA model. Its not an HFL at all - HFL denied all knowledge of it despite having the name on the control panel. Its actually a Paguro here is the link to

http://www.advanceyacht.co.uk/products/generators/3000rpm/paguro-4000-generator.html

Advance yachts are very helpful.

I had exactly the same problem when starting - so I dismantled the fuel shut off and cleaned it - it had not been used for quite some time. Note - absolute cleanliness required!

Never had the same problem again. I suspect you may also be able to give it a thwack with a spanner which might just get the insides moving.

It is also worth checking that all the electrical connections on the front of the engines are tight - mine only has chocolate box connectors and they vibrate loose. (nothing to do with the fuel problem though)

 

[superheat6k]

When this happened to mine it was a rusted exhaust valve. These gennys have various very similar models by Westerbeke, Paguro, Mastervolt, Fischer Panda.

Remove the injector, squirt in about a tablespoon of engine oil, spin over briefly to remove excess oil, re-insert the injector and see it it runs. If so head off and replace the valve, possibly with a new seat if this is also corroded (mine was). The lump you refer to is probably the fuel solenoid valve.

I will send you the manuals for similar generic generators and the Faryman engine. For parts for the engine itself Mitcham Diesels are very helpful and offer low prices.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Poked around a little more. What I suspect is the lift pump a lump of metal on the left front if looking from the alternator end. It has the cables running into it and no other connection. The loose cable has nowhere obvious to go still!

Cheers

Nick

Nick, have we identified it as a Pagura from the web link I sent?

If so, follow the fuel system through by eye. The first thing you come to is a vertical tubular contraption on the side above the water pump. This is the electric fuel pump. Follow on and you get to the electric shut off valve which is to the left looking at the engine end on with the alternator at t he other end.

By cracking off the connections with the ignition on, you should see a weeping of fuel. do this to the connector into the fuel shut off valve first. If fuel is present move on till after the shut off valve. Do this before you touch the injectors to check if there is a stuck valve. You should be able to check that you have compression just by the sound of the engine turning with the starter.

 

[NickTrevethan]

Hi Chris,
It is quiute heavily branded HFL rather than Paguro, but it is based on the farymann 18W motor, which I think is the same as the Paguro. I have found a manual online, but the fuel pump in here does not look like anything on mine.

I have traced the fuel line, it seems to come in on the front left hand side, when looking from the alternator, snakes around enters a filter on the back, lower right side , near the oil dipstick and then to what I think must be the injector pump. I haven't crackeed off anything yet. I think will wait for the weekend.

http://farymann.de/uploads/en/operations-manual-18w.pdf

Thanks for teh help so far!

 

[rogerthebodger]

I also have a farymann based generator (one I built myself) and that is generally the way the fuel flows around the engine. I fitted an outboard priming bulb that makes bleeding very easy.

Crack open the feed banjo joint on the injector, which is next to the dip stick. Once air free fuel come out of banjo tighten the banjo and slacken the pipe to the injector. Operate the starter until air free fuel come out of the injector pipe. Tighten then if there is compression the engine should start.

Note the position of the stop lever (page 65 of your posted manual) Ensure that is in the run position and that you know where the stop position is when you need to stop. the engine.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Hi Chris,
It is quiute heavily branded HFL rather than Paguro, but it is based on the farymann 18W motor, which I think is the same as the Paguro. I have found a manual online, but the fuel pump in here does not look like anything on mine.

I have traced the fuel line, it seems to come in on the front left hand side, when looking from the alternator, snakes around enters a filter on the back, lower right side , near the oil dipstick and then to what I think must be the injector pump. I haven't crackeed off anything yet. I think will wait for the weekend.

http://farymann.de/uploads/en/operations-manual-18w.pdf

Thanks for teh help so far!

Nick, mine is also heavily branded as well, but it would be useful to know from my link to advanced yachts that it is the pagaro - otherwise I cannot talk you through anything! It is VERY obvious from the casing that it is a Pagaro - check the link.

The one on the Ferrymann manual is very different, it uses a different fuel pump and also a different shut of mechanism. So interested in what it is.