HFC 227 for e/r automatic fire estinguisher: any good?

[MapisM]

I was suggested a tank with this stuff, as a replacement of an obsolete system.
Is that ok, or is there any better alternative these days?
TIA!

 

[jfm]

I was suggested a tank with this stuff, as a replacement of an obsolete system.
Is that ok, or is there any better alternative these days?
TIA!

Yep, that is the one to get. Is same as FM200. If it goes off it is clean and it doesn't kill you if you are in e/room. It is a "negative catalyst" in that once present @ 20% the chemical reaction of combustion stops. You still have 80% of air to breathe.

BUT it is good to have auto closing of you e/room vents. You don't want it to get blown out by wind until things have cooled down. I would expect your DP is pretty good at closing its e/room ventilation in case of fire

 

[alt]

I had HFC227 for several years in my e/r (as from new by Cranchi, but obviously kept up to date) without issue from my insurers (IRL).

It only became an issue when I coded the boat and they insisted that I change to CO2. Many opinion (also on the forum) was that I was going backward, but this is what the inspectors insisted on. By their own admission, HF227 was fine, but they 'had to go by the book'.

HF227 seems to be the standard for e/r from my research, so I think you're good to go.

 

[superheat6k]

HFC 227 replaced the highly effective Halons which were banned as part of the CFC phase out.

BUT all HFCs are on a general reduction due to there high Global Warming Potential, and this is bad news for fire fighting gases. Refrigeration HFCs (notably R134a) are being replaced with a new family of gases called HFOs, but these are mostly, if not all, flammable, so not much use for fire extinguishing applications. This phase down will be gradual between now and 2030, but unless the chemical firms come up with something else then CO2 which is awful as a fire stopper due to the sheer quantity needed compared with a pyrolising gas.

I haven't seen much attention being given to firefighting HFCs, but they are all part of the same family, and the phase down in on the overall quantity of HFCs. Interesting to note coding authorities do not accept them, I wonder if this is because strictly speaking they are possibly illegal to actually use.

 

[superheat6k]

Yep, that is the one to get. Is same as FM200. If it goes off it is clean and it doesn't kill you if you are in e/room. It is a "negative catalyst" in that once present @ 20% the chemical reaction of combustion stops. You still have 80% of air to breathe.

Just be cautious that they are non toxic unless burnt, when the secondary gases produced can be very very nasty - e.g. phosgene, hydrofluoric acid, etc. It is the burning that pyrolises (smothers) the flame that burnt them.

 

[MapisM]

Thanks folks, all clear as far as my needs are concerned.
Luckily, coding ain't an issue for me, and I was just looking for a way to replace the old tank (filled with Dupont FE36 stuff, whatever that was) with the most suitable modern extinguisher - so, HFC227/FM200 it will be.
Time being, I'm happy to postpone to 2030 any global warming issues...

 

[MapisM]

Just be cautious that they are non toxic unless burnt, when the secondary gases produced can be very very nasty - e.g. phosgene, hydrofluoric acid, etc. It is the burning that pyrolises (smothers) the flame that burnt them.

Correct me if I'm missing something, but that's not a concern if it goes off by mistake/malfunctioning (i.e. without any fire) while someone is in the e/r, I reckon?
And pretty sure, I'd jump out of an e/r as quick as I can, if a fire would break out while I'm down there - and I wouldn't dream of going down during or right after a fire, either...

 

[superheat6k]

Correct me if I'm missing something, but that's not a concern if it goes off by mistake/malfunctioning (i.e. without any fire) while someone is in the e/r, I reckon?
And pretty sure, I'd jump out of an e/r as quick as I can, if a fire would break out while I'm down there - and I wouldn't dream of going down during or right after a fire, either...

HFCs are non toxic and non flammable meaning they will not sustain a fire on their own, but they do degrade, e.g burn, in fire to provide the fire fighting characteristic. So you are quite safe with a reasonable exposure, but then are not oxygen so too much and you could be asphyxiated. So if it went off by accident then you should get yourself out, but not to panic if you took a breath of the stuff.

 

[jfm]

Thanks superheat for that extra info - good to know.

As regards coding, I have personally coded many UK boats with FM200 without a problem. Alt's problem must be Irish coding rules, or a surveyor who doesn't know his eggs. (I've always said not to listen to a coding surveyor who disagrees with this forum, which is populated by folks who actually have read the coding law, at least in UK!:encouragement

 

[MapisM]

Just another question on this matter: what sort of tank capacity have you folks installed in your E/Rs?
Depending on who I'm asking, I'm told anywhere from 6 to 12Kg, with 9 in between! :ambivalence:
I understand that the larger the better in principle, but wtf...?!
E/R volume is just about the same as in a P57 or a Sq58, just for reference.