HF/VHF v Satelite

[Das_Boot]

It seems it is time to invest in Sat coms. Extract from report.....

'''''''At the time of the attack we broadcast Mayday calls on all known VHF and HF radio frequencies. The only response was from a commercial vessel (see Noonsite report ). This vessel sent out reports via SATELLITE.

Gandalf was struck by bullets about 14 times. Mahdi was struck 3 times. Fortunately none penetrated the hulls and no one on either boat was wounded. Thank goodness for steel boats!

Conclusion: Emergency HF radio frequencies, like 2182 MHz, no longer exist in most of the world. NO ONE IS LISTENING'''''''

Just as I thought.

 

[tome]

[ QUOTE ]
There was no response except from a commercial ship in the area on VHF 16 who approached and observed the disabled pirates for a bit, then sailed along side of us for 2-4 hours until dark to make sure we would be all right

[/ QUOTE ]

Sometimes worth reading the detail before jumping to conclusions, wouldn't you say?

 

[TigaWave]

I dont think there is ever one against the other, in terms of communicatins choices, each has their own uses.
Short range/instant help is pretty hard to come by in most cruising situations. HF gives you reliable contact with other cruising boats which can be very valuable, for instance for medical help (theres always a doctor/nurse somewhere on an HF net)
In the very rare encounters with pirates you're going to pretty much on your own whatever form of radio you choose.
I personally would have an HF in preference to a Satellite phone. In fact I cant think of why I would want a sat phone at all really?

 

[iangrant]

Reckon I'm lucky to have both -
The sat phone can send email - OK the SSB can too.
The Sat phone can browse the web for weather maps, download grib files etc.. yes the SSB can download weather faxes.
The sat phone can send sms text
Email (under 1 min and sms) free..
Home can phone in an emergency, I can 'phone a doctor in an emergency. (comes with the medipac deal)
The SSB/VHF can talk to other boats..
Both very good at what they do.

Ian

 

[Das_Boot]

I agree that both are preferable it is just that there is not allways another boat near you or listening. I dont say chuck the ssb away just invest in a sat system aswell.
I am only talking about cruising/long distance sailing here.

 

[Mike_Martin]

[ QUOTE ]
Conclusion: Emergency HF radio frequencies, like 2182 MHz, no longer exist in most of the world. NO ONE IS LISTENING'''''''

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm, I'm feeling a bit of a "deja vu" coming on. I seem to remember pointing out quite a few times 2182 Khz was replaced by DSC on 2187.5 Khz as the Distress frequency some time ago.

I for one think that Sat phones can be a very useful long-range tool in an emergency! A call to Falmouth CG will start them off talking to everyone (shipping SAR services etc) within range of you immediately using their kit on your behalf. Don't forget they have everything including MF/HF and Inmarsat and Iridium terminals.

Mike

 

[Ships_Cat]

And this 2182 thing comes up alot of times. While it is still a telephony safety frequency people do not seem to realise that it is of only close in short range value and its use has become mostly redundant with VHF coverage of coastal areas and regionalisation of MF/HF RCC's.

As Mike points out the telephony safety alerting has largely been replaced by DSC, but from a competent boat station you will get a response to a telephony Mayday on a frequency appropriate to the current propagation situation (eg night, day, terminator) from anywhere in the world. 4125kHz, 6215kHz, 8291kHz, etc are all watched safety frequencies. I concede though that HF does suffer the possibility of poor propagation at any time whilst satellite almost never does and if one is up for the cost of an INMARSAT C station (expensive) then that is the way to go.

If anyone cares to argue that the demise of coast stations (being replaced by regionalisation) and ships not watching the telephony channels destroys the worth of HF then they may like to explain why I can work amateur stations on HF while they are sitting in their cars in the UK with tiddly little mobile antennas from my boat here in NZ - I have every confidence that an HF Mayday from my boat (we actually have HF DSC as well) will be picked up and actioned by an RCC somewhere providing the rare event of a propagation blackout does not exist.

Perhaps if some people actually did the required study (as required by most states) instead of parroting on about it all being a waste of time they would understand some of these things.

John

 

[snowleopard]

My Icom 710 is "DSC enabled" but when I took my LRC they said that the cost of a DSC controller was over £3K. Needless to say I didn't buy one. Is that still true?

 

[Das_Boot]

I did not realise you could enable DSC on ssb radios. What is the cost benefit relative to sat coms. does anyone know?
I would rather invest in a new ssb radio if it were an efficient and viable way of getting a distress call out on the high seas.

 

[iangrant]

A Mini M set fitted with proper dome aerial is about double if not three times the cost of an SSB with DSC. Of course you can't buy a legal EU SSB with DSC yet..Maybe our resident Icom man can give us a date for this?

A hand held Iridium is about 800 quid or cheaper, another option?


Ian

 

[Das_Boot]

Serious bucks hey. However I have paid more for peace of mind. I am ok being incomunicado however my wife would like to have some way of running up the phone bill.
I have an EPIRB and think it is sufficient alongside the ssb but she has been reading the bloody pirate attack storeys.
It would be nice to find out the cost.

 

[Mike_Martin]

[ QUOTE ]
Of course you can't buy a legal EU SSB with DSC yet..

[/ QUOTE ]

You can but it is pretty expensive, it's the Barrett unit.

What you can't actually buy is a "legal" ICOM unit.

Mike

 

[Mike_Martin]

[ QUOTE ]
My Icom 710 is "DSC enabled" but when I took my LRC they said that the cost of a DSC controller was over £3K. Needless to say I didn't buy one. Is that still true?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you'll find that he was quoting for the whole thing. IIRC that is approx the cost of the Barret DSC/SSB unit.

Mike

 

[ChrisE]

I bought an Iridium handheld for £1000 at the LBS, the service contract costs $750 prepaid or $30/month plus $1.40/min a call. The handset, a 9505A provides texts (via email) and email (via email) as well as voice.

In terms of an emergency I'd probably call of VHF/DSC first, if no reply then use the phone. If the phone was bolloxed, then trip the EPIRB.

I'm of the view that, for me, SSB has been superceded by the satphone, as I'm fortunate enough to be able to afford the phone bills.

 

[iangrant]

The Thrane and Thrane Iridium sat Phone is £4,952.00 plus installation.
There is no connection charge or line rental. Data connections under one minute don't get charged, so quick sms or email text/grib downloads are free. Speech is about $1.80 per minute.

Ian

 

[snowleopard]

No, the classroom setup had an Icom 710 and a Navico VHF both linked to a DSC controller. The price was for the controller only.

 

[JonBrooks]

You are right, there was a DSC add on for the M701...GM110 SRP of £1999 + VAT.

It was in the days of the old approval system, each country did its own.
The GM110 was approved every where in the EU a part from here in the UK.

When the new R&TTE and CE came in it was decided not viable to reparrove the M710 and the GM110.

It is hoped that the new EU approved SSB will be here at the end of this year.
It will have DSC built in.

The sytem you mentioned in the class room is the Class A commercial setup. this was put together by ICS.

Regards

 

[Das_Boot]

Any Idea what it will cost?

 

[JonBrooks]

We have no details on pricing at this time sorry.

I am guessing and it is a only a guess that it will be about the same as the M710 and the M802 aprrox £1400 ex vat radio only.

Regards

 

[Das_Boot]

How do you mean radio only will there be extra bits to buy if I already have an ATU etc.