Henri Lloyd VAT

[AndyG1985]

Dear All
First time posting here so go gentle.

I am based in the Channel Islands and I have recently purchased some Henri Lloyd gear off their online shop. Due to Jersey being VAT exempt I asked about the removal of VAT from their items and they said that they didn't have the means to do so but they would happily still ship the goods to me. When I told them that it was against UK Tax Law to knowingly Export(as the sipper) goods outside the UK and still charge VAT they said that they will look into it but their accounts system is not setup for tax exemption, I suspect this is just a ploy as even the most basic of accounting software allows for TAX exemption.

My question is as this is a global forum has anyone else had any issues with VAT removal with Henri Lloyd and the fact that they are effectively committing tax fraud.

Don't get me wrong I am not disputing the gear as I personally believe it is head and shoulders above anything else you can buy out there, my last set of waterproofs have finally started to fade and be beyond repair after 11 years which is why i am replacing them. Its just it really annoys me the fact that I have had to pay over £70 of VAT when I don'n need to and then an additional £30 of local tax when they arrived.

If you have had the same issues I would love to hear about them as it may be that a phone call to HMRC might be in order to actually get Henri Lloyd in line with UK tax law.

Many Thanks
Andy

 

[Nick_H]

Don't you have a local stockist?

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

they are effectively committing tax fraud

Is that actually true though? Who are they defrauding? It's a hell of an allegation to make, so you need to be sure...

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Don't you have a local stockist?

According to the Henri Lloyd website there are two on Jersey.

 

[volvopaul]

I have supplied part to CI before, all I understood was that I needed the name and address to prove to HMRC that I was supplying a non eu country or state, job done.

Perhaps you didn't get the sharpest tool at Henri Lloyd supplier.

 

[rich]

Andy, When I wanted a new dinghy, I called Bob at Southpier and asked him if he would match the online price. he matched the price and paid the freight cost,& it was ordered especially for me, as it was not one kept in stock.

 

[Nigelpickin]

I'm not sure they are breaking a law here...might be wrong but i believe they dont have to offer tax free shopping to non EU's and of course HMRC will be recovering the VAT so no fraud to them....could be wrong but I always thought it was the retailers choice...

 

[CharlieAlpha]

I suspect the problem was with their online shop (as opposed to their Accounts package), who ever set it up might have only done the 'UK' bit.

 

[Powersalt]

Dear All
First time posting here so go gentle.

I am based in the Channel Islands and I have recently purchased some Henri Lloyd gear off their online shop. Due to Jersey being VAT exempt I asked about the removal of VAT from their items and they said that they didn't have the means to do so but they would happily still ship the goods to me. When I told them that it was against UK Tax Law to knowingly Export(as the sipper) goods outside the UK and still charge VAT they said that they will look into it but their accounts system is not setup for tax exemption, I suspect this is just a ploy as even the most basic of accounting software allows for TAX exemption.

My question is as this is a global forum has anyone else had any issues with VAT removal with Henri Lloyd and the fact that they are effectively committing tax fraud.

Don't get me wrong I am not disputing the gear as I personally believe it is head and shoulders above anything else you can buy out there, my last set of waterproofs have finally started to fade and be beyond repair after 11 years which is why i am replacing them. Its just it really annoys me the fact that I have had to pay over £70 of VAT when I don'n need to and then an additional £30 of local tax when they arrived.

If you have had the same issues I would love to hear about them as it may be that a phone call to HMRC might be in order to actually get Henri Lloyd in line with UK tax law.

Many Thanks
Andy

Hi, well they are not breaking any laws as long as they put the vat on the quarter vat declaration which they will no doubt do. Yes there are companies out there that do not want/wish to deal in non vat exports. The odd one can be a pain.

But why not look in Guernsey when you next go over there. Boatworks has a great range of HL and there is no vat or jersey sales tax??? actually I would imagine they would get one in for you

 

[Seastoke]

Iisnt it that only eu is vat exempt on exports as you pay the vat in that country surely vat has to paid somewhere ,just an opinion

 

[Dill et Bound]

I live in Guernsey..
I never have a problem with having the VAT off..
I buy from Marine Superstore Force 4.Trickett Marine, to name but a few.
I had a new fuel tank manufactured in Wales sent down VAT free..
I have bought furniture in the UK, and had it shipped to me..VAT free
At Gatwick, in the Departure Lounge you can take Receipts with the forms from the supplier for goods purchased in the UK that you are removing from the UK, and get the VAT back..
Either buy local as suggested.. I do also support my local retailers..or get your Henri LLoyd stuff from one of the online marine suppliers...
I cannot believe that they have never exported any of their products outside the UK..
I was also once told that only person who pays VAT is the end user normally, as everybody has the opportunity to claim it back..But how true that is I am not sure..
Good Luck ..And Boatworks do Henri Lloyd

 

[AndyG1985]

Hi Guys

Thanks for all the posts, I did try to purchase these locally from Southpier however they wanted me to pay extra for postage due it being special order for them, they also told me that due to being special order if the items weren't right there would be quite large charges to return the item and also they are same VAT included price as I can buy from the UK. When I told them that I could buy direct from Henri Lloyd with free delivery and free returns, I was told to "go buy online then".

I also contacted BoatWorks in Guernsey and they said that they didn't stock the items that I wanted, it would also be the same price as the UK price inclusive of VAT and that if I did want to order I would need to wait until their next Henri Lloyd stock order in March, April time. Unfortunately I needed these for a few weeks ago so I couldn't wait that long.

Just an update on the VAT removal thing, I decided to contact HMRC and give them a hypothetical question and they has confirmed that if a supplier is direct shipping. I.e. Shipping themselves, the a country or destination outside the UK and EU as they have details that the items were shoppe to that destination them they MUST remove the VAT.

I have contact Henri Lloyd about this and they have said that they are going to look into setting processes to enable zero-rated shopping. They have also said that they will into a way of trying to refund the VAT I paid.

Thanks Again
Andy

 

[Tempus]

To give an alternative viewpoint as an internet retailer. The OP is wanting to take advantage of HLs free delivery and returns service, which is all costed on uk deliveries, not CI rates. The local companies won't do this as they know the true costs. HL clearly are not set up to export to CI and the process will be very manual and costly for them to do.

to be 100% clear on the rules. HL will not charge you VAT and should manually put your export on their vat return. However there is no rule whatsoever to say they need to reduce the retail accordingly. If I were them I'd charge you the full retail price to cover my increased aggro, admin and shipping costs, particularly as you are only doing this to undercut my local distributor.

Sorry about the slight troll, but shopping hl to HMRC to get a cheaper jacket seems pretty low behaviour to me.

 

[Nick_H]

To give an alternative viewpoint as an internet retailer. The OP is wanting to take advantage of HLs free delivery and returns service, which is all costed on uk deliveries, not CI rates. The local companies won't do this as they know the true costs. HL clearly are not set up to export to CI and the process will be very manual and costly for them to do.

to be 100% clear on the rules. HL will not charge you VAT and should manually put your export on their vat return. However there is no rule whatsoever to say they need to reduce the retail accordingly. If I were them I'd charge you the full retail price to cover my increased aggro, admin and shipping costs, particularly as you are only doing this to undercut my local distributor.

Sorry about the slight troll, but shopping hl to HMRC to get a cheaper jacket seems pretty low behaviour to me.

Did you read any of the preceeding posts, or is this more than just a slight troll?

HL presumably passed on the VAT to HMRC, so they were clearly happy with the economics of free shipping and returns to the Channel islands within the part of the price they get to keep. Charging or not charging VAT has no impact on them financially, other than maybe some admin. If HL are not "set up to export to CI" then they shouldn't have done it!

HL did charge the OP VAT, so why would you write that they will not?

The OP made it clear in his last post that he posed a hypothetical question to HMRC, so he hasn't shopped anyone, not that HL would be in any trouble if he had.

 

[Seastoke]

so if he buys vat free does he have to pay the vat rate in ci and how would he do that take he buys a sunseeker would that be vat free

 

[Dill et Bound]

Yes We don t pay VAT even on Sunseekers...
Not that that makes much difference to the man in the street.
Check out the Food prices in the CI
Check out the cost of Travel to and from
Check out the price of Housing.
Healthcare is also a thorny subject..
Weather or not VAT is charged, and in Jersey they have a Goods And Services Tax.. Or the Poor Tax.. because thats who it effects most..Is only a small part of the price that we pay for living in a really beautiful place.
Would I choose to move? No.
We are Channel Islanders...Its just the way it is..

 

[Tempus]

To clear up my post...

1 - I said HL were not set-up to export the the CI. There is a difference between exporting, which involves a lot of paperwork, and shipping, which doesn't. HL can clearly ship to the CI but, as the OP has found but they are not set-up to export (if they were, they'd have a procedure in place to deal with the VAT). Remember too that if they refund the VAT in error then HMRC will still expect to be paid and HL will have no recourse back to the customer - so a risk for no return.

2 - I also observed that they would not charge VAT. If you look at most receipts from online retailers they are not VAT receipts You tend to have to ask for one of these separately. They may have charged the extra but their accountants will not declare that on the VAT form, hence will pocket the extra margin.

3 - Finally I very much doubt anybody in their call centre is considering shipping costs to the CI. Most courrier contracts send a bill at the end of the month for services used and CI shipping is usually at least 50% higher than mainland. Orders to CI are so few that it's not worth worrying about - but it would be if there is also a big fuss over VAT every time.

The risk for the OP, as Dill et Bound has observed is that stuff in the CI is not actually 20% cheaper in the UK as the costs of operation are much higher - a fact that has been costed and noted by all companies doing regular business there. If the OP can get a VAT refund, then go for it, but the risk is that someone above the call centre operative at HL works out the costs are actually puts a stop to it, or in extremis, stops shipping to the CI altogether.

The tone of my post may have been a little negative, but I think that to expect free delivery and free returns plus a company to go through the hoops to offer zero VAT for the Channel Islands is expecting a lot. HL may do it once, plenty of others won't.