Help with buying new sails

[santavey]

Having flogged every bit of life out of my sails, now 8 years old and made by Kemp, its time to buy some new ones.
Quotes received range from £977 for a bog standard cross cut main to £2600 for a radial cut fully battened main.
Genoa roller reefing from £850 for a cross cut to £2000 for a radial cut.
Quotes from Jeckells, Crusader, North Sails, Quantum (Parker & Kay) and Kemp.
Kemp also sent a bewildering array of materials to choose from.
I guess the more expensive sails are better quality materials and better made.
Is there a noticeable difference in performance between radial and cross cut sails?

Boats a Fulmar (Fractional rig) , mostly cruising with the odd club race.
Heavier sail cloth for cruising perhaps?
Any advice gratefully received.

 

[status]

Have just been around the loop for a new main this summer for my Fulmar.

General advice I was given was cross cut was fine for this size of main.

Fully battened was out, as I rarely race and dont have cars anyway.

I paid a bit more for the higher grade cloth. I went with cruisader, they recomended a cloth weight but would make it heavier if I wanted at no increase. Lighter cloth = better performance, heavier = longer lasting, I went with their recomendation.

Stuart

Am I pleased with the sail? It looks good, fits, and makes the old one look realy bad, but as to how it sails, I dont know yet. The weather gods have not smiled in my direction.

 

[duncan99210]

We bought a new set from Crusader for our Bavaria 38 last winter. Bought from them on price and recommendation. We are cruisers - no racing and bought their crusing weight sails with the aim of long life rather than out right performance. Very pleased with the sails and service from them.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

Is there a noticeable difference in performance between radial and cross cut sails?

.

My boat came to me with a radial cut kemp genoa in a cruising laminate inc foam luff. Its definitely the best genoa I have ever sailed with but whether it is worth the extra dosh is anoither issue

My boat is used the same way as yours.

 

[Cariadco]

Not an answer but a question.

I'm just about to place an order for a new Gennie with Quantum, here in Corfu.
I hear good things about them, and I've a few friends with Quantum sails on their boats.
Sorry I can't help with any advice, but does anyone have any experience with Quantum?

Thanks,

 

[Yacht Yogi]

Sail selection

I would suggest that you think about getting a fairly durable main for both cruising and your occasional races but that you buy two genoas, a Dacron one for cruising (assuming you use roller furling) and also get a nice laminate one kept just for racing. The difference in upwind performance between a crisp laminate and a soft Dacron genoa is really noticeable. That way the expensive racing laminate is not going to get flogged to bits when you go cruising in a bit of a blow with it partly furled.

It also means that next time you replace a sail it should be just one at a time rather than the whole set at once.

 

[Lucky Duck]

I'm just about to place an order for a new Gennie with Quantum, here in Corfu.
I hear good things about them, and I've a few friends with Quantum sails on their boats.
Sorry I can't help with any advice, but does anyone have any experience with Quantum?

Thanks,

I have taken delivery of two relatively modest (by racing standards) sail inventories from Parker & Kay who were the local affiliate for Quantum. No complaints with any of the sails and Parker & Kay seem to enjoy a better reputation on the forums than thier local Harwich based competitor.

However, as far as the OP is concerned Parker and Kay are now part of the One sails group rather than Quantum.

 

[smth448]

When it comes to sails you do get what you pay for within reason.
Cheaper sailcloth will have a high resin content which will fall out fairly quickly after which your sails will resemble an old dishcloth.
A cloth with low resin content will have the fibres very closely packed so there is very little room for them to move, restricting stretch on the bias of the cloth. Cloth like this is more expensive but will lat much longer.
For cruising I would go for a fully battened main. This reduces flogging and again makes the sail last longer. The donwside is that there is an incresase in chafe where the battens rub on the shrouds down wind. Full battens also allow the sail to stow neatly in a stack pack on the boom more easily. Speak to your sailmaker but you can get batten cars that will fit in the normal mast groove.
Otherthan that I would go with the sailmaker that delivers the best service. You are spending a substantial amount of money so expect them to come and measure the boat and then fit the sails when they are delivered. That means you will have to go for someone fairly local.
Then it comes down to whether you want your sails made in the UK or in the Far East. Ask the sailmaker where the sails are made. You will be surprised at just how many sailmakers get their sails made abroad nowadays. If you don;t want that be prepared to walk away.

Whan it boils down to it if you are happy with the life you have had from your Kemp sails, why change?

 

[GrumpyOldGit]

Jeckells Sailmakers

Having flogged every bit of life out of my sails, now 8 years old and made by Kemp, its time to buy some new ones.
Quotes received range from £977 for a bog standard cross cut main to £2600 for a radial cut fully battened main.
Genoa roller reefing from £850 for a cross cut to £2000 for a radial cut.
Quotes from Jeckells, Crusader, North Sails, Quantum (Parker & Kay) and Kemp.
Kemp also sent a bewildering array of materials to choose from.
I guess the more expensive sails are better quality materials and better made.
Is there a noticeable difference in performance between radial and cross cut sails?

Boats a Fulmar (Fractional rig) , mostly cruising with the odd club race.
Heavier sail cloth for cruising perhaps?
Any advice gratefully received.

I have just ordered a set of Dacron Ocean performance sails for my Dehler 34 From Jeckells of Wroxham, the reason ? They were half the price of laminates and should be about 90% of the performance. With 3/4 battens and a full length top batten a nice performance shape, all measured up on site in Essex by a very knowledgeable young rigger. Laminates just wear out too quickly and require a lot of care in use. Jeckells also offer a standard 5 year warranty even for racing. Talk to these guys and avoid the rip off merchants in Harwich. ps. this is all for less than three grand delivered !!

 

[BAtoo]

FWIW; we also mainly cruise and occasional club race. last choice was a cross cut main (full top batten and standar lowers) & tri-radial furling genoa, both in Dacron & from Parker & Kay. Very satisfied with both the quality & service. Only change I might make is a smalle genoa - went for 135% & think a 110% blade type might have been better.

Have had cruising laminates before & whilst they are probably better I think for normal use most leisure sailors would be more than adequately served by decent Dacron.

 

[KellysEye]

>bewildering array of materials to choose from.

If you are buying Dacron sails then check the fabric, glue is cheap fibre is expensive. The better and longer lasting sail has more fibre. To check it get a magnifying glass and put a bright light behind the fabric. It will be immediately obvious which sample has more fibre. Things to watch out for: many sailmakers use the same cloth but charge different prices. Is there a reason e.g triple stitched, leech line on main led to the mast. If not buy the cheaper sail with the fabric you want. If you want to see the best quality cloth get a sample from Hood, then benchmark others against it, you will be staggered at the differences.

 

[BlueSkyNick]

Fully battened was out, as I rarely race and dont have cars anyway.

Not sure I get this. Fully battened mainsails are still good for cruising, not only in sail shape but also better control and easier stowage when its dropped.

Cars are fitted to the sail, not the mast, and slide up and down the in the same slot. Not cheap though - for 4-battened sail, quotes for cars ranged from £400 (Rutgerson) to £1400. (Ronstan/Frederikson)

 

[Stork_III]

Not sure I get this. Fully battened mainsails are still good for cruising, not only in sail shape but also better control and easier stowage when its dropped.

Cars are fitted to the sail, not the mast, and slide up and down the in the same slot. Not cheap though - for 4-battened sail, quotes for cars ranged from £400 (Rutgerson) to £1400. (Ronstan/Frederikson)

And will also need a new mainsail cover/stack pack, as dropped sail height at the mast is taller.

 

[marchhare]

Not ever had to buy new sails but I can see it could be difficult to make a choice of sail maker and that would be largely influenced by recomendation since evaluation of sail cloth and suitability for use can be much more objective. I can offer experience of two suits of sails but on different boats.
The first boat was a new high volme boat with a sails from a well know Danish company, although I think that is not important since the sails would have been built to a spec determined by the boat builder. The main had three quarter battens, standard sliders and did not drop easily, performance average. The genoa was basic, no foam luff and the shape was dreadful as soon as you put in a roll or two, sailing performance upwind disappinting.
Second boat has Sanders sails, main is fully battened with Freidrickson roller cars, heavier cloth, beautiful shape even now and 10 years old. Genoa is Tri-radial cut with foam luff and shape when roller reefed reamains very good, up wind performance is excellent, (also has something to do with the boat though).
The main drops like a stone, stacks easily and the additional height the cars produce over standard sliders is very managable.
Based on my experience, and that is all I can go with, I would not hesitate to go to Sanders for replacement if I could afford it at that time. As someone else said you usualy get what you pay for, but choice of sail maker.....?

 

[snooks]

OEM sails that come with boats (unless specified) are built to a price with low quality fabric and aren't a reflections of the sailmakers real quality. Sit next to someone wearing Apple's own earphones on a train and you'll hear what I mean, they are cheap and nasty and leak sound, but they are sold with the iPod as it needs headphones to work, same thing applies with yachts and their sails.

Best advice is for the OP is to speak to the sail maker, go to their loft see how they make their sails and have a chat to them, tell them the type of sailing you do, see what they recommend and ask they why they recommend it. If you don't trust what they are saying, walk away.

Obviously you want the best deal, but you must be happy that you will get the quality and sail you want and are paying for. You know how good you are at trimming sails, how much you value boat speed etc explain that to the sailmaker, and draw on their experience.

 

[H4B]

New sails for Fulmar

Having flogged every bit of life out of my sails, now 8 years old and made by Kemp, its time to buy some new ones.
Quotes received range from £977 for a bog standard cross cut main to £2600 for a radial cut fully battened main.
Genoa roller reefing from £850 for a cross cut to £2000 for a radial cut.
Quotes from Jeckells, Crusader, North Sails, Quantum (Parker & Kay) and Kemp.
Kemp also sent a bewildering array of materials to choose from.
I guess the more expensive sails are better quality materials and better made.
Is there a noticeable difference in performance between radial and cross cut sails?

Boats a Fulmar (Fractional rig) , mostly cruising with the odd club race.
Heavier sail cloth for cruising perhaps?
Any advice gratefully received.

I have a Fulmar (fin) as well, which I mostly club race and cruise a little. Sometimes I think I need/want a new boat Elan 310 Sunfast 3200 and Dehler 32 all figure but then I wake up and remember that really I am happy and have great fun with what I have, accepting that its not a light wind boat. Its either a few thousand on new sails or £50K on another boat and then new sails .

I have Fully Battened main by Kemp 4 year old still in great condition . I have a 130% DP square Dacron furling Genoa from Kemp , a low cut foot and does me well to windward. Its 3 year old and I am now considering a laminate for race days. Have consulted widely ( Kemp and Saunders bothnreally helpful) and looked at North 3DL and D4 carbon Kevler Membrane. Leaning toward a Tri radial Kevlar laminate with an internal tafetta with the same cut as the existing 130% . As to your last question yes I clearly think so or I would be sticking with my perfectly servicable Genoa. The thinking behind the internal laminate is that it can take a few rolls of reef to get you through whereas a film film laminate cannot and generally makes the sail more durable. Some sail makers claim a D4 membrane can also take a reef but others are not so bold which does make a decision more difficult. With a non furling laminate there is also a case for a 95% blade but that will be in heavier DP square and cross cut.

You get what you pay for and at the final shakedown there is not a lot of difference in price ,one loft to another, if comparing like with like. its more about service and your dealings with them , how knowlegable and helpful they appear.

Be clear as to what you hope /expect to get from the new sail.

I am also going to change the prop to either a flexo fold or a featherstream . Another dirfficult decision.

Hope that helps you , its helped me writing it down . ha ha !