Help! Thje Insurance 'Nazis' are trying to write her off?

[pongoglo]

Plea of desperation here for help and advice? My vessel was cosmetically but not that badly damaged during the winter storms when a Brittany Ferries vessel lost it coming out of Portsmouth in high winds and demolished half of the outer pontoon on our marina, sinking one yacht and damaging quite a few. My boat a (29ft Sloop, a bit long in the tooth (1979) but much loved, and a great sea boat that has never let me down) was fortunately on the inner pontoon, but received damage from other boats which were on the outer coming adrift and impacting her hull, plus from floating ' concrete' sections of the outer pontoon that broke adrift.

To cut a long story short I am insured fully comp and Britanny feries have admitted liability (the damage was caused by their bow thrusters attempting to push off, not by their vessel , Mont Saint Michel, impacting the marina with her hull) so I thought I was in the clear. I had my repairer come down and take a look and they furnished me with an estimate, all topsides damage, broken stanchions etc, although he did identify that the pulpit was bent and would prob need to be replaced. Not too bad I thought, but oh no - not to be. Just to be certain it was deemed that a below waterline investigation would need to be carried out, so she was subsequently lifted and a loss adjuster from my insurer and an assessor from Britanny Ferries insurer subsequently attended the boat. It was here that the problems started. Although both parties agreed the damage, and in fact approved even damage that I hadnt previously noted, on inspecting the hull it appears that two small patches of osmosis were found. It was this that apparently changed the game. Even though the hull was in no way breached, and there was no mechanical damage the two insurers would appear to have got their heads together and agreed that because they had found osmosis she was now beyond economical repair. This even though the osmosis had nothing at all to do with the original incident causing their attendence at the start.

This news broke this afternoon and as things would have it it is now the Easter break. Apparently all that I may now be offered is her 'as is' market value, with the osmosis identified, and without the damage made good. Can anyone offer advice?? Even though my vessel is a'fairly old lady' she is a British classic, a sturdy sea boat, and over the years I have given her much attention and care. I have no intention of selling her, she means more to me than her monetary value, and it was (and is) my intent to sail her into my later years. Is there anything that can be done - even if they insist that she be written off surely I must be given first offer at buying her back, and Britanny Ferries must be forced to pay for the undisputed damage they have caused?

Anyone out there with a similar experience or knowledge and experience of the insurance game? Any advice welcome and most eagerly sought.

 

[sailorman]

who are your insurers & did you have "Agreed value" clause

 

[hartcjhart]

although I hate them with a vengeance I think a 'no win no fee' firm would be best option

 

[dancrane]

...even if they insist that she be written off surely I must be given first offer at buying her back, and Britanny Ferries must be forced to pay for the undisputed damage they have caused?

Sorry if I've missed something from your tale of woe...but if the vessel was, and remains yours, and was only lifted to examine the damage, why should you have to 'buy her back'?

 

[jerrytug]

I don't understand how anybody could possibly even suggest that osmosis, a bit or a lot, could have anything to do with Brittany Ferries' liability. Get legal advice ASAP.

 

[Aurai]

Hi

Find a reputable and pragmatic Boat Surveyor who is not phased by Osmosis, understands it and the necessary remedial action and the time lines involved. Osmosis is not usually terminal and nor does it usually require instant or immediate action.



Cheers

 

[yoda]

Are the insurers offering less than her insured value? When I had my boat badly damaged the cost of repair exceeded the insured value and I was then offered the boat back for the same price as the insurers had been offered for the 'wreck'. In my case the insured value was 10k and the wreck would have cost me £750.

If you have had a few quotes for the work you will know what it is going to cost (although I found all quotes were well inflated for insurance purposes) and you will be in a good position to decide if the pain of repair is worth it.

As for your policy, check the small print and also consider if you have legal protection using it for advice, I did and found it very helpful in helping me make my decision.

Yoda

 

[sailorman]

This is where a good policy / insurer counts.
hope it all works out for you

 

[SimbaDog]

I'm pretty sure there is an insurance expert on the mobo forum, but I can't remember who it is? Pretty sure someone over there could tell you.

 

[bedouin]

I think the insurance company is within their rights to do what they are doing. Since I doubt if the boat has significant scrap value then you should be able to retain the boat and get close to the full market value for the boat. If you can then repair her for less than that then you are quids in. Note that as you are dealing with their insurer they cannot insist that the boat is written off, and they cannot force you to sell her. You are entitled to compensation for your losses but that cannot (normally) exceed the market value of the boat.

The osmosis does affect the liability as it reduces the market value of the boat, and so reduces the maximum BF have to pay. If that reduces the value to below the cost of repair then they can write the boat off. While osmosis is not dangerous / terminal it could reduce the value by the cost of getting it appropriately coated (a couple of thousand - you should also get an estimate for that).

I would have thought the best approach is to get an independent assessment of what she was worth before the accident and then negotiate directly with BF (or their insurers) for cash settlement near that figure.

 

[Modulation]

This is indeed a sad story. I had reason to claim on my policy 4 years ago. Even though the loss adjustment/survey process was carried out in a very professional and amicable manner, it was all very tense as the sum was for the best part of 10,000 euros. Circumstances were totally different from yours but the key issue ultimately was what the wording of the policy was - it's nothing to do with fairness, reasonableness or whatever.
So my advice is to sit down and read your policy doc in detail. When my claim was finally dealt with (positively) the insurance claims officer told me that he couldn't believe how many people simply didn't know what their policies covered.
At the very least you will feel a lot better able to argue your corner.
Best wishes with this

 

[bedouin]

This is indeed a sad story. I had reason to claim on my policy 4 years ago. Even though the loss adjustment/survey process was carried out in a very professional and amicable manner, it was all very tense as the sum was for the best part of 10,000 euros. Circumstances were totally different from yours but the key issue ultimately was what the wording of the policy was - it's nothing to do with fairness, reasonableness or whatever.

Sorry but that is not correct, the OP is not claiming on his policy. Brittany Ferries have admitted liability so they have to pay up. The amount they have to pay has nothing to do with the wording of either the OPs policy or BFs, they have to compensate the OP for his losses according to the law, and there is loads of case law defining how that should be done.

 

[sailorman]

I'm pretty sure there is an insurance expert on the mobo forum, but I can't remember who it is? Pretty sure someone over there could tell you.

jfm is the gen kiddie

 

[jerrytug]

Sorry but that is not correct, the OP is not claiming on his policy. Brittany Ferries have admitted liability so they have to pay up. The amount they have to pay has nothing to do with the wording of either the OPs policy or BFs, they have to compensate the OP for his losses according to the law, and there is loads of case law defining how that should be done.

Exactly Bedouin and it's nothing to do with osmosis either. I predict a positive result!

 

[TonyBuckley]

Oh so sad. Osmosis is the elephant in the room yet I have heard of no boat becoming structurally unsafe through its appearance. Maybe in twenty years time such boats will surface so to speak (that sounds wrong). Resale value impact... yes a bit but not as much as it used to I believe and more of a mechanism to beat down prices rather than accept a perfectly good boat.

How much would it cost to just ignore the insurance and fix yourself? From your description it does not sound hideous; certainly not a right off.

Maybe just enjoy the fixing and learn new skills through the experience and make her a better boat than before.

Insurance companies will always try to avoid a claim. But you have not said who your insurer is, yet alluded to collusion between yours and theirs.

Was there any negligence in the ferry sailing?

For us poor sods, there is little chance of battling the players without major expense and risk.

If anything, you should be publicising the story, publicising the insurer, publicising the feeling of wrong, and in a much wider group such as this little hovel.

 

[TonyBuckley]

And just to be clear, I am NOT saying give up. But take it gently; you sound stressed by it being Easter Weekend. This will take time.

 

[TQA]

It is the insurance companies interests to to make a single payment to you rather than negotiate with a yard for the repairs.

You need to make it crystal clear that you intend to retain ownership of the boat. It would be worth your while to get a lawyer who is familiar with insurance law to draft the letter. There is nothing wrong with making a counter offer for cash and retention of ownership.

I would also include a 'loss of use claim'.

Make sure that you do not indicate acceptance of any offer until you are happy with the amounts on offer and are retaining ownership.

Any recent pics of her looking spiffy will help.

 

[TonyBuckley]

It is the insurance companies interests to to make a single payment to you rather than negotiate with a yard for the repairs.

You need to make it crystal clear that you intend to retain ownership of the boat. It would be worth your while to get a lawyer who is familiar with insurance law to draft the letter. There is nothing wrong with making a counter offer for cash and retention of ownership.

I would also include a 'loss of use claim'.

Make sure that you do not indicate acceptance of any offer until you are happy with the amounts on offer and are retaining ownership.

Any recent pics of her looking spiffy will help.

+1. Quick cheque. Won't cover the damage but see you some of the way there.

-1. Lawyers cost!

 

[GrahamM376]

My advice is to obtain legal advice ASAP and in the meantime don't agree to anything or sign anything. If you are an RYA member you are entitled to free legal advice.

My own thoughts as a layman are that you either want the boat repairing at their cost or, payment in lieu of repairs and sort it yourself.

 

[Tranona]

This news broke this afternoon and as things would have it it is now the Easter break. Apparently all that I may now be offered is her 'as is' market value, with the osmosis identified, and without the damage made good. Can anyone offer advice?? Even though my vessel is a'fairly old lady' she is a British classic, a sturdy sea boat, and over the years I have given her much attention and care. I have no intention of selling her, she means more to me than her monetary value, and it was (and is) my intent to sail her into my later years. Is there anything that can be done - even if they insist that she be written off surely I must be given first offer at buying her back, and Britanny Ferries must be forced to pay for the undisputed damage they have caused?

Anyone out there with a similar experience or knowledge and experience of the insurance game? Any advice welcome and most eagerly sought.

The important thing to remember when dealing with insurance companies is that they are insuring an asset with a monetary value, not the value to you. It is a fact of life that monetary values are usually lower than the value to you, particularly now when monetary values of old boats like yours are so low.

If you are claiming from your insurer then the maximum you can claim is governed by your contract with them. If you are claiming from Brittany Ferries they only have put you back in the same position as you were before. In other words pay you the market value of a 45 year old boat with osmosis. They will do every thing they can to minimise that value.

Therefore you should claim from your insurer for the insured value and let them deal with Brittany. Then offer to buy the wreck for a nominal sum if it is worth repairing, or take the money and let them deal with the wreck. You may find it useful to engage your own surveyor to advise on the feasibility of repairs.

Try not to get emotional with your insurer. You can,t change what has happened and you may well find they are responsive to a business like approach that gets the claim resolved without leaving them with a wreck to dispose off.