about to take over boat, finance discover previous owner has no vat invoice.
help, what can i do ?
survey done months ago, new equipment fitted on boat etc etc.
now finance say deal off unless invoice found.
is this the end ???
I had 2 deals fall through after the offer was accepted.
1'st was they would not allow a full survey !!!! I pulled out of that one
2'nd was RCD issues - While still trying to get info from owners they sold to another.
3'rd try lucky.
Although this does not help with your issue, I would say that if you really want the boat, and if the survey and new equipment is costly enough, possibly the only thing you can do is pay the VAT. orrible I know but ...
Was the deal based on VAT paid? If so then perhaps you can get the seller to pay the VAT.
I'm puzzled why the finance company would be concerned, except in that it would diminish the value of the boat by 17.5%. If a large loan-to-value guess this could be an issue regarding their security. I assume you have explored the 'VAT except' possibilities if applicable. Otherwise, as already suggested, you drop your offer by the amount you consider appropriate with all expenses considered.
I really dont understand all the rhetoric about VAT. VAT was introduced into the UK in 1972, and so any boat bought or built after that date would have been sold to the end user with VAT paid. Any boat bought in EEC after that date would have been VAT paid in the country where it was bought.
The only exception will be a boat that was either built outside the EU and transported in, or a boat built in the EU, "exported" VAT free and then re imported.
If you bought a 10 year old RollsRoyce for say £30,000, you would not even think about asking for an original VAT receipt. Moreover, no insurance company would ask to see a VAT receipt, for the very simple reason that all vehicles are sold with VAT added. If it applies to the 22 million cars on the road why should boats be significantly different ?
Is this just a "vat" invoice that the bank is worried about? or is it proof of ownership ie "any" sale invoice.
If the latter they are probably worried that the boat is not his to sell, or that somebody else will crawl out of the woodwork claiming ownership.
If it is just VAT and there is valid chain of title, I cant see what the fuss is about.
Get clarification from finance company before terminating the deal.
" I can sort of understand this, what I can't understand is why the thing can't be simplified so the Registrar of Shipping or even the VAT office itelf records the VAT status from new and maintains a central database instead of placing the onus on us sailors to hang on to invoices that might be 20 or 30 years old."
You are misunderstanding the relationship between us and our rulers. They are not there to help us - they may be civil servants but they are often not civil and are never servants. They require you to keep the info and provide it to them when required - not the other way round.
have to agree on that. likewise there seems no sensible reason why i can't take all the receipts for the materials from my build and get a simple document to certify that VAT has been paid. but no, that would be helpful and would reduce the chances of them being able to screw me for another 17.5% again later.
Without details of the boat in question it is difficult to offer advice but you have several options.
1) negotiate a reduction in price by 17½%.
2) try another finance house
3) talk to your local C&E office regarding a vat paid certificate.
4) contact the boat builder and try to obtain vat certificate/invoice
6) pay the VAT
I always thought VAT paid status was only required if you intend to take the boat to france or the like. I was under the impression it is not required for sailing in UK waters so, if this is correct, do you ever see your self crossing the channel?
It would be interesting to know how many forumites cross the channel (and how many times) and how often have any been stopped and asked for proof of VAT paid.
Same would apply to those in the Med.
I would have thought the builder (if still in existence) could have provided at least a copy of the original sales invoice.
My pile of receipts is now 4" high. Very nearly finished.
Over the years I have been told different stories at the boat show by HMC&E.
Unfortunately I didn't launch it when Dover was still in operation So I am stuck with a pile of receipts and can'not sell for five years after launch (not happened yet). Considering copying them onto a CD then just holding a bank of these CD to dish out as and when required.
Moved down from Inverness to Central scotland but boat is stuck in a waterlogged field until it either freezes or stops raining up there.
I am afraid we are a casulty of the present financial biased economy on which this country is based.
As I understand it, whilst your CD might work with UK Customs, it will not with the French who consider that if you dont have the originals with you then you are fibbing and fine you anyway. IIRC previous advice for self build is to carry the major bills e.g hull, engine, sails, rigging. as the evidence for foreigners and thus not have to carry around lots of paperwork.
Personally I reckon its about time RYA did something about this and pressured HMCE to provide a proper certificate when asked. Its not much effort for HMCE, and it would save an awful lot of worrying by people.