Help Please - Potential "Raggie" Convert....

Nick_Pam

Member
Joined
3 Dec 2003
Messages
665
Location
Warwickshire/Empuriabrava
Visit site
Help Please - Potential \"Raggie\" Convert....

Hi All

Due to the recurrence of an old back injury of mine, we are finding it hard to enjoy, or indeed get a lot of use out of our 2006 Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 40.3 as SWMBO is not strong enough to winch and I end up in the bunk for 12 hours after a gentle afternoon sail!

Given that we both massively enjoy time out on the water, especially in the Med, we are seriously contemplating selling (or part exchanging) "Freya" to fund the purchase of a 40 foot-ish sports cruiser, as neither of us like fly-bridge boats.

With a budget of around £180k it seems that we are in newish Sealine S37; Princess V40/42; Sealine S41/42/43 or slightly older Fairline Targa 40 territory.

Now I've read with horror recent posts about the cost of upkeep (and repair) to outdrive legs which kind of rules out everything apart from the S43, especially as I've looked after shaft drive engines in my sailing career andkind of understand them.

If I think about fuel economy, then the S43 is ruled out straight away.

From a performance perspective, handling on shaft-drive boats is considered better than legs, especially in a cross-wind mooring situation, but legs give better top end and cruising speeds in relation to fuel economy.

If I think about build quality, then my research suggests Princess or Fairline every time. If I think about sea-keeping, then again the Princess seems to be the recommended boat, although articles I have read (MBY April 2006 and July 2007)have suggested that there is not a lot in it.

If I think about above-deck space, they are all much of a muchness, although we would prefer the cockpit Princess to the one with the sun-lounger. If below-deck space is high on the wish-list, then the Sealine wins every time with that fab aft master cabin.

Given all that, and the fact that I know little about the Fairline brand, despite the fact that I live 15 miles from the factory, I am leaning firmly towards the S43, but a little imp in my mind is telling me that when we were berthed in Plymouth, I saw & admired so many Princesses being PDI'd in Mayflower, that I am missing a trick unless I go that direction.

Any thoughts, suggestions or suggested alternatives....I've gota bit of time because I need to sell "Freya" first!!!

Many thanks in anticipation.

Nick
 

bigwow

Well-known member
Joined
26 Feb 2006
Messages
6,523
Visit site
Re: Help Please - Potential \"Raggie\" Convert....

You may regret going over to the dark side
/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 

Whitelighter

Active member
Joined
4 Apr 2005
Messages
13,979
Location
Looking out of the window
Visit site
Re: Help Please - Potential \"Raggie\" Convert....

Welcome. Everything is subjective to be honest. For person you will find who is a fan of outdrives, you will find someone with stories of woe and misery. For every lover of shafts, you will find someone who can't stomach the fuel bills and prefers the vectored thrust of outdrives. There isn't a perfect drive type, other wise we would all have the same. Maybe it is IPS, but that is too new to tell yet.

From the list of boats you have mentioned, you seem to have done the market research in your sector fairly well. Ownership is all about how you will use the boat. Some people want a floating caravan, with as much internal volume as they can get and so long as the sea keeping isn't diabolical they will be happy. Others want a boat that performs, and will sacrifice some internal room for grace and pace. Most want somwhere in between.

The boats you mention are all similar, with the Princess being the oldest design (it is the same as the V39 from 96), she classically pretty however, and has a well proven pedigree. The Targa 40 is a bit more modern, and is a very very good sea boat. I personally love the Targa styling and I think with the T40 they got it pretty much cock on. The S41/42/43 give you a load of boat for the money, and offer a second head compartment - if that sort of thing is important. Styling wise they are a bit of a chuncky monkey, and not as sleek as the other two. I personally dont think the build quality of the Sealine is up with either Princess or Fairline either, but then you will get a newer boat than the other two.

I would also say, don't be put off by outdrives. They are fine so long as you maintain them properly. The only issues are caused by lack on maintenance. slow speed handling is no worse than shafts, just a different technique, though any minute now there will be a few to say I am wrong. Most of the boats you will look at will probably have a bow thruster as well, so it is even easier. They cost more to maintain. but if you want a boat rather than a caravan, you will get the money back and then some in fuel savings.

In terms of handling, the Fairline and the Princess will be better than the Sealine, Searly S41's had a habit of chine walking and didn't inspire confidence. Later S42's and 43's are reckoned to be much better.

As for alternatives, if you plan to base the boat in the Med then it might be worth looking at some more regional builders as well. Likely as not it will be dictated to by what is available on the market at the time.
 

Nick_H

Active member
Joined
20 Apr 2004
Messages
7,662
www.ybw-boatsforsale.com
Re: Help Please - Potential \"Raggie\" Convert....

Well more bits have fallen off my Princess in 3 months than fell off two Sealines in 4 years, so I don't buy this superior build quality argument. The Princess has a heavier build for sure, but it actually annoys me a bit that there is so much redundant weight on the boat, for example every floor access hatch cover is 3/4" ply, then reinforced with another 3/4" ply! Why?!

If you suffer back problems are you sure a planing boat is for you, even a good handling 40 footer will bounce and slam a bit in all but the calmest sea, you may find semi-d more comfortable, and if you're an ex-raggie you wont exactly miss the speed /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 

Nick_Pam

Member
Joined
3 Dec 2003
Messages
665
Location
Warwickshire/Empuriabrava
Visit site
Re: Help Please - Potential \"Raggie\" Convert....

Jez - Really appreciate you taking the time out for such a detailed answer....I hadn't thought of the offset of fuel economy against outdrive maintenance, which is significant if we do a fair few hours in the year. (I did have a look at the Westlines BTW!!)

Mr Duck - thanks for the link - I will have a look at that.

T'Other Nick....interesting your comment about build quality - that's the first even slightly negative thing I've heard about Princess build quality. Thankfully I can drive my AMG Merc on all the bumpiest roads all day without any significant aggro from my back - I've got a couple of fused disks from when I got knocked overboard by the boom in a match race a few years ago and it complains like hell when I do winching, pulling and other gymnastics exertions!!!

It will be interesting to see if I stir up the "shafts v legs" debate again!!

Nick
 

Whitelighter

Active member
Joined
4 Apr 2005
Messages
13,979
Location
Looking out of the window
Visit site
Re: Help Please - Potential \"Raggie\" Convert....

I feel I shouild clarify my previuos comment regardin the build quality of Sealines. I don't think they build bad boats, in fact, I reckon for production boats they are very good. What I meant was that Princess and Fariline seem to use higher grade materials and fabrics, and more of them.

I guess how they are screwed together almost varies boat to boat once they become used.
 

Whitelighter

Active member
Joined
4 Apr 2005
Messages
13,979
Location
Looking out of the window
Visit site
Re: Help Please - Potential \"Raggie\" Convert....

That is no trouble. I don't have all the answers, but if someone takes the time to ask a sensible question with a good level of detail as you have I reckon it deserves a considered answer.

Shame we don't build a boat big enough for you. Maybe in a couple of year eh. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 

LAMBADA

Member
Joined
29 May 2007
Messages
208
Location
Wirral
Visit site
Re: Help Please - Potential \"Raggie\" Convert....

I had 5 years of Princess V42 ownership without a bit falling off where as my father has a bit falling off his Sealine every couple of weeks.
 

Nick_Pam

Member
Joined
3 Dec 2003
Messages
665
Location
Warwickshire/Empuriabrava
Visit site
Re: Help Please - Potential \"Raggie\" Convert....

It did occur to us but then I looked at the availability and cost of a mooring in the Med!!!

Also, to be honest, I get a bit fed up of the typical too much/not enough/wrong direction wind thing out there, but I'm banned from coming back to good old blighty as SWMBO infinitely prefers warm sunshine to normal UK weather, let alone what we're getting now!!!!

Nick
 

Poignard

Well-known member
Joined
23 Jul 2005
Messages
53,012
Location
South London
Visit site
Re: Help Please - Potential \"Raggie\" Convert....

I was watching the world go by at Chichester Marina Lock yesterday ["...no wrecks and nobody drownded, in fact nothing to laugh at at all........"] when a big Dutch-registered, steel motor-yacht came in, ably crewed by an elderly, English sounding man & wife. Super looking, immaculate boat. Sensibly sized deck hardware and high bulwarks, and the lady on the foredeck looked much safer there than some of the crews do on the "steam-iron" designs.

If I ever have to give up sailing I think I would go for a classicly lined Dutch boat; probably not all that fast but if you got caught out in bad weather you would feel you had something that would see you through it in safety.
 

[2574]

...
Joined
29 Nov 2002
Messages
6,022
Visit site
Re: Help Please - Potential \"Raggie\" Convert....

Sounds like you need to get something which will be soft on your back. A fast sportscruiser in a bit of a sea will slam. So maybe go for a soft landling semi-displacement boat? Have a close look at Nimbus, Nelson or maybe even the slow dutch steel Linssen. You'll get much better fuel economy. We've gone the other way - we had a Targa 39 and now have a Nauticat 39. The fuel bills as of the end of red disel will be eye watering for any large planing boat - I used to reckon to get about 1.3 mpg from the Targa which will be about £3.85 per mile or £460 solent to Cherbourg and back. That would spoil my enjoyment of boating and warrants serious thought.

rob
 
D

Deleted User YDKXO

Guest
Re: Help Please - Potential \"Raggie\" Convert....

Nick_Pam, congratulations, you have certainly done your research. I will echo houghn's comments. I have had a number of motor boats including Sealines, Fairlines and Princesses and whilst early Sealines (pre 1990) were probably lower in quality, IMHO they've been on a par with the others for some years. One of the most troublefree boats I ever owned was a Sealine 410 and one of the most troublesome was a Fairline Targa 48. The problem is that mud sticks and Sealine's market image is a tad behind Fairline and Princess and that is'nt helped by the somewhat blobby styling on some of their models but don't be put off by build quality. Having said that the S41/42/43 range does'nt have the best reputation. There were early probs with Mercruiser drives and chine walking (basically the boat leans unexpectedly to one side - not dangerous) on the S41 although apparently these were fixed later. The S43 is obviously a different animal being shaftdrive but it's image has suffered by association. See this month's MBY for an article on these boats. Of the boats you've mention the Princess V40/42 certainly has a good reputation for performance and seakeeping and would be a safe buy. Another excellent boat you have'nt mentioned is the Windy 37 Grand Mistral which is a very good sea boat but has less accomodation. Another boat well worth considering in your price range is the Sunseeker Camargue 44 which has the benefit of shaftdrive
A couple of factors you have to consider for Med boating. You will need a tender and it's a pain to have to blow it up and deflate it every time (I know raggies like doing this but it's too bloody hot) so it needs to be stored somewhere. Any boat that stores it's tender on davits is a pain as you have to drop the dinghy every time you moor up because it gets in the way of the passarelle and the mooring lines so it's best to get a boat which has tender storage on the bathing platform or in a garage. Secondly, I agree with your stated preference for shaftdrive, You're going to be doing a lot of reversing into stern to berths and that's easier to master with a shaftdrive boat especially as you're coming from a sailboat. Also shaftdrive requires less maintenance which is important as your time in the Med is precious but, as has already been stated by jez, fuel efficiency is worse
I'm interested to know why you don't fancy a flybridge boat. We started with a sports cruiser in our first Med season, thinking that was the most ideal boat and very quickly changed our minds. We did'nt appreciate that because our trips to the boat were less frequent than in the UK, they were for longer periods and the boat had to work as living accomodation as well as a boat. In this respect flybridge boats are so much better, principally because they have a large light airy saloon rather than a small dark coal hole plus a whole additional deck up top. On the other hand, if you have a flat or villa as well and your boating is primarilly day boating, then a sports cruiser makes a lot of sense
 

Poignard

Well-known member
Joined
23 Jul 2005
Messages
53,012
Location
South London
Visit site
Re: Help Please - Potential \"Raggie\" Convert....

[ QUOTE ]
I've found Peter Sellers' old motor yacht for sale in Spain and I'd be there like a shot if she'd let me!!

[/ QUOTE ]


Looks good, and not expensive, but wood? For how much longer will there be shipwrights around used to working with wood to yacht standards? [I mean hull work, not fitting kitchen units etc].
 

Nick_Pam

Member
Joined
3 Dec 2003
Messages
665
Location
Warwickshire/Empuriabrava
Visit site
Re: Help Please - Potential \"Raggie\" Convert....

Mike

Again - thanks for a very detailed and considered response.....
The fly-bridge question is easily answered - we spent a weekend on an Sealine F43 and Pam (who is not good with heights and edges) couldn't spend any time on the fly-bridge because she was scared....and bearing in mind that we never left the marina, it kind of puts the kybosh on that idea!!

I'm not sure why we would need regular access to a tender...our boating generally is day-sailing from marina to marina and on the odd night we go on the hook, we tend to stay on board, or in a harbour we pick up a visitors buoy and get the water taxi.....perhaps I'm missing something, although our current tender would sit quite nicely on the bathing platform on a Princess/Sealine/Fairline I think.

Cheers... /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Nick
 
Top