Help needed What boat should I buy as liveaboard for the French/Dutch canals?

[TQA]

OK I need to have a plan B. Say I find I can't manage my 44 foot sailboat out here in the Caribbean AND OR need to be close the the UK for some reason.

So in my late 60s I want a cruiser of some sort that I can pootle about the French/Dutch canal system. Money is not too critical but say up to £80k Less would be good so I can have more toys.

I have sorted out the air draft / water draft thing and seem to be looking at three possible sort of boats.

1 - A traditional British narrow boat around 30 feet. Pros Strong Looks good and will be a talking point abroad I guess. Cons cramped.

2 - A GRP cruiser [lots for sale in the UK] 25 to 30 feet. Maybe even with an OB. Most will have been designed for the hire mkt so crammed full of beds but a revamp is possible. Pros Less maintenance Cons Not as bump resistant as steel but the hire punters don't kill too many so must be strong enough. Boring.

3 - A Dutch built steel canal boat. Again 25 to 30 feet. Pros Strong and seem to have more character than grp. Cons maintenance,

Now I know nothing about the 'gotchas' of canal cruising so please help me out.

What sort of things should I be looking out for. EG

Bow thrusters

Holding Tanks

Weird Laws that say I have to carry a policeman with a red light.

There must be more so help me out here.

 

[CharlesSwallow]

I wouldn't use a UK style "Narrow" boat on the european waterways. They were originally introduced as a compromise due to the width (7ft) of our canals in some parts and are generally hopelessly underpowered for the stream rates on some of the european rivers. Are you aware of the "Tim Spall: All at Sea" TV series? Google it and you will see his barge, the Princess Matilda. SHE is more like what you want.

Also, if you've read the books of Bill & Laurel Cooper "Sell up and Sail" for instance, you will be aware of their ca90ft Hosanna. She was actually too long to be navigated on just a leisure yachtmaster's but they were never bothered by officialdom. They now have a much smaller vessel and continue to cruise.

There are alternatives where you can have the accomodation and general ruggedness of a "Boote" with the convenience and low maintenance of GRP. Each year we come across a German vessel of this type in our cruising around Greece with an elderly couple on board. Their boat has everything including thrusters at both ends, Aircon and powered winches for warping. Their electricity requirements are met by a very quiet generator with switchable exhausts so as not to annoy the neighbours. Their fuel carrying is massive and they have an endurance of 3500nm. They also have a watermaker.

As to "Rules & Regs." you will need to comply with C.E.V.N.I.(Code Européen des Voies de la Navigation Intérieure). This requires knowledge of the rules, the carrying of the latest edition on board and certification by one's national licencing authority as to your knowledge of and competence in those regulations.

Chas

 

[Wino]

While I know many may disagree with me, I think for one or two people something around 38 - 45 ft about right; if only inland a single engine;
Big enough for reasonable comfort, able to be used throughout 'most' waters in Europe and still small enough to be moved by road (often much cheaper and certainly quicker than cruising through some very boring area, or against a strong current )
There are many such boats for sale, supposedly hundreds in Holland;
Buy one and have a go, I think you will love it. We do!

 

[V1701]

I'd say pretty much anything you like the look & feel of as long as it has a single sensible diesel engine and a prop on a shaft...

 

[Bobobolinsky]

Look at converted tjalks/peniche in Holland. Lots of em around, except the Brits keep buying them and bringing them to the UK. A real Dutch Barge, the tugs are smaller and more manageable.

Coastal and channel crossing not a problem

http://www.h2ofrance.com/bateaux/gb/bateau_1201.html

http://www.h2ofrance.com/bateaux/gb/bateau_1077.html

 

[BoyBlue49]

Canal boat

To my mind a boat built in the area you intend sailing usually pays off, so, the Dutch steel motor-cruiser with fore and aft sleeping cabins and central living accommodation/galley, normally with two steering positions (inside and out) should suffice.
Steel can be knocked back into shape if damaged by the least talented basher, the Dutch coat their bottoms with a finish that lasts for several years and only needs an occasional scrub and repaint. Don't forget this is fresh water so no salt water problems.
A suitable boat of 10-11 mt with a single 80 hp motor and sufficient fuel and water storage would make a comfortable live aboard. Purchase price, anything from £40,000 to £100,000, don't be put off by age, there are many early 1900's Dutch barges up and down the canals, anything from 1980 onwards with a good survey is ok.
Try looking at www Booten te Koop. Motorcruisers.
It is what I am planing to do some time soon.

 

[Grehan]

Although of course there are narrow boats over here . . forget them as liveaboards unless you really know you could cope with the nature of the internal space, long term. They're not at all ideal for coping with rivers and French locks, especially single-handed. (yes, I've already said there are some here, but that's my opinion).
Forget outboard powered boats.
With single-handed sailing one has plenty of interaction with the boat. With single-handed inland cruising one has plenty of interaction with 'outside things'. Try to choose a boat that allows for that - cleat positions, side decks, access on and off, line handling fore and aft . . .
I know full well that steel Dutch cruisers are what every boaty thinks is 'appropriate' but IMHO I think they're often quite cramped inside, heavier, use more fuel and require more maintenance than GRP. You're not going to hit too many rocks are you? The hire boat companies all use GRP and their boats get a lot more knocks than you'll give yours. GRP is easy to repair, probably easier than steel and you'd have to have had a very big knock to require someone to 'bash it out' (from the inside?).
If you're interested in 'tradition' our acquaintance Steve Barnes single hands a Tjalk and has 'done' France top to bottom - see www.globaledit.co.uk/barge

 

[TQA]

Although of course there are narrow boats over here . . forget them as liveaboards unless you really know you could cope with the nature of the internal space, long term. They're not at all ideal for coping with rivers and French locks, especially single-handed. (yes, I've already said there are some here, but that's my opinion).
Forget outboard powered boats.
With single-handed sailing one has plenty of interaction with the boat. With single-handed inland cruising one has plenty of interaction with 'outside things'. Try to choose a boat that allows for that - cleat positions, side decks, access on and off, line handling fore and aft . . .
I know full well that steel Dutch cruisers are what every boaty thinks is 'appropriate' but IMHO I think they're often quite cramped inside, heavier, use more fuel and require more maintenance than GRP. You're not going to hit too many rocks are you? The hire boat companies all use GRP and their boats get a lot more knocks than you'll give yours. GRP is easy to repair, probably easier than steel and you'd have to have had a very big knock to require someone to 'bash it out' (from the inside?).
If you're interested in 'tradition' our acquaintance Steve Barnes single hands a Tjalk and has 'done' France top to bottom - see www.globaledit.co.uk/barge

I think that something like that barge would be too big for me. I am thinking 30 maybe 35 feet at the outside. It is likely that I might be finished up docked somewhere semi permanently but before that stage in my life I would go exploring and ease of handling would be critical I think.

Are there any charcter 30 to 35 ft GRP boats that you could think of in France. Something like this maybe.

 

[Me_has_a_Boat]

I would favour a broads cruiser in style - wider than a narrow boat but with the same open access to the bow (and stern) from inside the boat. Otherwise you trade wider side decks for less interior space or settle on thin sidedecks - as you get less nimble (steady?!) that will get old real quick. Would also certainly want some decent open deck / cockpit space - whether or not will a full enclosure. IMO 40 - 45' would be very nice, without getting too big - not so much because easier to handle (40's is already too big to carry!), but to find places to tuck it away / moor.

A bow thruster? not really neccessary (decent sized (big!) rubber or rope fendering! as plan B) but one of those things that is nice to have on occassion.

I would also go for GRP - steel boats have the habit of rusting from the inside out as whilst in many respects steel is "better" they are somewhat less forgiving of neglectful (or ignorant) previous owners. Plus GRP has lower maintanence. All you need to do is avoid t-boning or getting t-boned by anything bigger than self - including stuff which is attached to land!, in practice most manage that, at least without incurring serious damage .

Your budget should get you nicely sorted

 

[Grehan]

Yes, you'll find loads of 10m/11m steel and GRP cruisers, including older 'character' ones (though 'character and GRP don't really go together) for sale. Was talking to someone at the weekend who had bought an oldish 10m steel Pedro (I think it was) from H2O 2 years ago. Was decidedly unimpressed by them, but no denying they sell plenty. I believe the venerable Bill Cooper sold "Hosanna" through H2O and no flies on Bill.

 

[TQA]

This was the boat I meant to link to CLICKY

Ticks most of my boxes. Not sure about the air draft but looks OK.

 

[V1701]

This was the boat I meant to link to CLICKY

Ticks most of my boxes. Not sure about the air draft but looks OK.

I had a look over one of those for someone, certainly not the prettiest craft but sure you wouldn't go far wrong with that one...

 

[binch]

Livee-aboard canalboat

1. There's a recent book on living aboard on continental canals. Try the library, if there is one still.
2. Consider joining the DBA (originally the Dutch Barge bAss'n but now much wider with 1700 members.) Their website is very informative anyway, but the members only part is highly recommended for practical invfo.
Apart from CEVNI there are now TRIWV, a bit of stupid EU bureaucracy, and special rules for the rivers. To get max pleasure, do some research. Forget the RYA. They hold no sway

 

[TQA]

1. There's a recent book on living aboard on continental canals. Try the library, if there is one still.

Do you mean this book?

The European Waterways: A User's Guide

 

[Grehan]

I suspect binch might be referring to his own volume "Sell Up and Cruise the Inland Waterways" . . .

 

[TQA]

I suspect binch might be referring to his own volume "Sell Up and Cruise the Inland Waterways" . . .

Ah Ha that looks more up to date than the other one.

No hope of finding that in the local library in Grenada though!

More pennies winging their way to Amazon soon I guess.

The first book by the Coopers Sell up and Sail was part of the reason I took a 7 year sabbatical in my 40s and went sailing. Best decision I ever made.

 

[Grehan]

Yes, "Sell Up and Sail" has got a lot to answer for on this boat, too
If you're interested in a 'slidey roof' Bounty then Aussie friends of ours here (in France, you save on transportation compared with buying in the UK) have one for sale. Excellent condition, they've bought a larger barge to live aboard. Used to operate a charter yacht in Bali and fanatical about maintenance (much more than me). Asking 50,000€

 

[TQA]

Yes, "Sell Up and Sail" has got a lot to answer for on this boat, too
If you're interested in a 'slidey roof' Bounty then Aussie friends of ours here (in France, you save on transportation compared with buying in the UK) have one for sale. Excellent condition, they've bought a larger barge to live aboard. Used to operate a charter yacht in Bali and fanatical about maintenance (much more than me). Asking 50,000€

Thanks this is a planning exercise as I am enjoying sailing in the Caribbean at the moment but looking ahead to the day when I either can't manage my lovely old lady or just need to be closer to the UK for some reason.

 

[JamesFrance]

We enjoyed living on a narrowboat for 5 years in the uk, but she was too long at 70 ft for easy handling on rivers so we sold her before moving to France.

You could have a shorter version of 50/60 ft built within your budget and have no maintenance costs to speak of for years. The engines are quite powerful enough for France and a bow thruster is hardly a necessity.

http://www.smhudson.co.uk/