Help needed to source fiberglass repair to hull

[Minerva]

Hi thanks for taking interest.
Yes your correct with what your observations
The the deck is fibre glass with a solid wood core I'll post a pic a bit later when I'm on my laptop.
The motors a bukh dv20 sail drive.
I do a have a bit of background with boats. I've 4 at the moment
A sabre 27 mk1 mold number 12 over in Spain
A Bruce roberts norwest 34 Wales
Gentlemans classic 33ft selby
And this one
I'm a gutten for punishment.
Just trying to get down to 2 now. View attachment 120955View attachment 120956

Using eBay on a Friday night after a few glasses of wine has a lot to answer for & I think you've taken that game to a new level entirely!

I've taken on a boat which needed a lot of work in the past and I'm all for the romance of bringing an old boat back to life - provided it's a classic or worthy. However the "Moody 33 racing boat" looks a rotten basket case. Sorry

 

[Concerto]

Revellers, I still think this will a money pit and not worth doing. I suggested you break it up and sell the bits. As you are relatively new to the forum and not posted much, I should explain my comment. I started sailing in 1965, and helped fit out a 34 ft hull and deck, later helping build two 30ft yachts from plans using a male mould in glassfibre. Currently I am coming to the end of a 8 year restoration of a 32ft Westerly Fulmar built in 1980. This PowerPoint presentation was made in Jan 2020, but a lot of work has been done since.
https://wiki.westerly-owners.co.uk/images/3/3f/Concerto.pdf

My budget was £12,000, but I have now spent about £26,000. The money does not worry me as I could have bought a new 32ft yacht and my skill set is extensive. There have been many up grades in the renovation, but no structural work like you are intending. Currently I am completing the interior woodwork back to bare wood and doing an external brush up, ready for Concerto to be at the Southampton Boat Show next month as the Westerly Owners Association boat at the show. Over the past few years I have done quite a lot of singlehanded sailing on her and next year I have a circumnavigation of the UK including the Shetlands, taking about 5 months.

So be warned, I expect to get Popcorn into a serviceable condition will cost at least £10,000 to £20,000. What will it be worth when completed, less than you spent. So, I still stand by my comment that your best solution is to break it up due to its current condition. The previous owner will certainly be glad he got rid of this boat as it still costs money being left on a mooring, yet it is now ashore which will cost more money every month on top of your expenses to rebuild her.

Having 4 boats is madness, especially as one is in Spain. You cannot devote enough time to keep them all maintained, let alone use any. If you are not employed you may have a chance to complete one, but if still working you do not have a chance in hell to complete one. The work involved is huge and not a simple DIY job, so if you decide to continue the I wish you the best of luck - you are going to need it.

 

[Daydream believer]

I bought my second Stella in an un usable state. Once I got into it I found rot in the hull , the roves in the planks were all loose because the wood was rotten around them.Broken ribs, the decks were rotten. Planks had sprung. All the hardware had to be replaced as were sails & rigging. . I had a joinery works & it was stored in the factory 100 yds from my house. I was able to keep a scaffold around it & all my tools laid out without putting anything away at the end of the day. I had staff to do the sweeping up. I had machinists to machine any timber or ply straight from stock as & when required. I did not have to wait for orders of timber mouldings, fastenings etc. Just came from stock. I had 2 ex shipwrights on my staff who helped me do a couple of items & show me how.
In spite of that I still spent 3.5 years working many weekends stripping the boat to a bare hull & completely re building it. Then completely sheathing it in epoxy mat.
I did not have any problems with cost so that did not cause any constraints & i did the job as a hobby for fun to prove I could do it. I really wanted to build a boat from scratch & somehow I wish I had. It would have been just as quick.
I cannot see a DIY sailor working in an open yard with little or no facilities refurbishing that boat any time soon. Anything done would probably be a botch at best. As with most projects of that nature, boredom sets in long before the end, along with money running out.
It is not worth starting.

 

[Revellers]

Using eBay on a Friday night after a few glasses of wine has a lot to answer for & I think you've taken that game to a new level entirely!

I've taken on a boat which needed a lot of work in the past and I'm all for the romance of bringing an old boat back to life - provided it's a classic or worthy. However the "Moody 33 racing boat" looks a rotten basket case. Sorry

Minerva yes your observations are correct, lessons are getting learnt . the expensive way may i add.

im sure keeping of the wine and websites dont match

im away next week for a break. on return will remove the rear 1/4 of the rot and will take it from there,

These 4 boats have built up over a period of 7yrs i dare not add up the total ive paid in storage

 

[Revellers]

Revellers, I still think this will a money pit and not worth doing. I suggested you break it up and sell the bits. As you are relatively new to the forum and not posted much, I should explain my comment. I started sailing in 1965, and helped fit out a 34 ft hull and deck, later helping build two 30ft yachts from plans using a male mould in glassfibre. Currently I am coming to the end of a 8 year restoration of a 32ft Westerly Fulmar built in 1980. This PowerPoint presentation was made in Jan 2020, but a lot of work has been done since.
https://wiki.westerly-owners.co.uk/images/3/3f/Concerto.pdf

My budget was £12,000, but I have now spent about £26,000. The money does not worry me as I could have bought a new 32ft yacht and my skill set is extensive. There have been many up grades in the renovation, but no structural work like you are intending. Currently I am completing the interior woodwork back to bare wood and doing an external brush up, ready for Concerto to be at the Southampton Boat Show next month as the Westerly Owners Association boat at the show. Over the past few years I have done quite a lot of singlehanded sailing on her and next year I have a circumnavigation of the UK including the Shetlands, taking about 5 months.

So be warned, I expect to get Popcorn into a serviceable condition will cost at least £10,000 to £20,000. What will it be worth when completed, less than you spent. So, I still stand by my comment that your best solution is to break it up due to its current condition. The previous owner will certainly be glad he got rid of this boat as it still costs money being left on a mooring, yet it is now ashore which will cost more money every month on top of your expenses to rebuild her.

Having 4 boats is madness, especially as one is in Spain. You cannot devote enough time to keep them all maintained, let alone use any. If you are not employed you may have a chance to complete one, but if still working you do not have a chance in hell to complete one. The work involved is huge and not a simple DIY job, so if you decide to continue the I wish you the best of luck - you are going to need it.

Concerto what a lovely restoration you have done and i can imagine will be a proud owner when you show your boat. I know i would.

I will be honest with you i am not looking for the perfect finish just tidying up the old gal get her sea worthy. i will have a poke around and see where i land

 

[Revellers]

I bought my second Stella in an un usable state. Once I got into it I found rot in the hull , the roves in the planks were all loose because the wood was rotten around them.Broken ribs, the decks were rotten. Planks had sprung. All the hardware had to be replaced as were sails & rigging. . I had a joinery works & it was stored in the factory 100 yds from my house. I was able to keep a scaffold around it & all my tools laid out without putting anything away at the end of the day. I had staff to do the sweeping up. I had machinists to machine any timber or ply straight from stock as & when required. I did not have to wait for orders of timber mouldings, fastenings etc. Just came from stock. I had 2 ex shipwrights on my staff who helped me do a couple of items & show me how.
In spite of that I still spent 3.5 years working many weekends stripping the boat to a bare hull & completely re building it. Then completely sheathing it in epoxy mat.
I did not have any problems with cost so that did not cause any constraints & i did the job as a hobby for fun to prove I could do it. I really wanted to build a boat from scratch & somehow I wish I had. It would have been just as quick.
I cannot see a DIY sailor working in an open yard with little or no facilities refurbishing that boat any time soon. Anything done would probably be a botch at best. As with most projects of that nature, boredom sets in long before the end, along with money running out.
It is not worth starting.

Daydream believer you are totally correct with what you say . the wood boat i have in selby i bought 2014 was told that 2 planks need removing here i am several years later

im trying to finish this but looked at the other boat (popcorn) and saw the rot in the rear 1/4 . i was aware of the toe rails were shot. so the plan is too remove this 1/4 of rot and see where im at .
im going to keep this boat so not worried about the cost.
Im not a purist but do want the job doing right.

 

[Daydream believer]

I will be honest with you i am not looking for the perfect finish just tidying up the old gal get her sea worthy. i will have a poke around and see where i land

Then what are you going to do with it?

 

[Revellers]

Makes more sense that it has a sheathed ply deck, but only rings more alarm bells as that highlights the big cause for concern which is the joints between the wood and the GRP parts of the hull and particularly between the deck and the hull. Expect when you take that teak covering strake/toerail off you will find rot in the beamshelf and the ply of the deck and the hull. (40 years of owning a ply boat!). The photo of the inside of the forepeak showing the construction is helpful and adds to concerns about its integrity.

On wood - yes you may be able to buy Iroko cheaper, the price I quoted was retail for new high quality timber. However even basic marine ply is twice the price you have been quoted and really good stuff 4 times!

You won't be able to take the boat to Spain and keep it there as a floating caravan without importing it and paying VAT. Plenty of legal floating caravans for sale in Spain for a fraction of the cost of fixing this boat.

Tranona i will keep my eye on the plywood i hope to purchase.

Isnt there a ruling about vat on secondhand boats pre a certain age i think that the duty is for the big flashy boats there more concerned about ???

Im Away to spain end of month for a week to spain but on my returun im going to remove the rot on the rear 1/4 and all the toe rail on that side and see what that reveals.

ill post pics and see what im left with. I want to keep this boat tho . ill enjoy the lessons im learning

 

[Revellers]

Then what are you going to do with it?

popcorn is going to Torrevieja i have a mooring there just cruise that neck of the woods.
more of a floating caravan/ day sails odd overnights over to the islands ,Fair weather boater for this vessel.
im over to the sabre just to have a poke around . the head sail is sorted on this one . you did notice a few jobs

 

[Wansworth]

If there was an Olympics in PBO This would get the Gold and the silver would go to the Colvin restoration??

 

[Keith 66]

Looking at the photo of the interior of the fore cabin i see a grp hull that has had its topsides raised by a large amount, the way its been done & the large diagonal struts rather than knees would suggest it was done by a carpenter with not a lot of boatbuilding knowledge, there doesnt seem to be a lot connecting the top to the grp hull. A plywood topped "Ris on" is never going to anything but a money pit. decent marine ply is horribly expensive & using cheaper stuff & coating it in expensive epoxy as many fools do in order to "save money, It will be ok" will not work for long.
My advice would be scrap the thing now rather than later enjoy the Sabre & eat steak.

 

[Revellers]

Yes they saw me coming
It's nice to known I'm winning awards tho. ?

 

[Revellers]

Looking at the photo of the interior of the fore cabin i see a grp hull that has had its topsides raised by a large amount, the way its been done & the large diagonal struts rather than knees would suggest it was done by a carpenter with not a lot of boatbuilding knowledge, there doesnt seem to be a lot connecting the top to the grp hull. A plywood topped "Ris on" is never going to anything but a money pit. decent marine ply is horribly expensive & using cheaper stuff & coating it in expensive epoxy as many fools do in order to "save money, It will be ok" will not work for long.
My advice would be scrap the thing now rather than later enjoy the Sabre & eat steak.

Yes I was thinking about that both suggestions.
What is holding the topside on . I'm going to dig deep in to this.
Stake on the sabre does sound very tempting.

 

[PCUK]

Keep going Revellers, you'll never make people here understand the joy of boat building. There is a big difference between boat owners and boat enthusiasts and those who have never rebuilt a boat will never understand the satisfaction of owning a unique vessel rather than a clone off a production line! We're a dying breed, but we still keep on going.

 

[Revellers]

I agree. UPVC window trims are often foam interior with a thin skin which is fine for domestic use but won't take impact damage well.

Keep going Revellers, you'll never make people here understand the joy of boat building. There is a big difference between boat owners and boat enthusiasts and those who have never rebuilt a boat will never understand the satisfaction of owning a unique vessel rather than a clone off a production line! We're a dying breed, but we still keep on going.

Yes you can see where I'm coming from but not to suggest the others are not true and valid. I think it depends on which side of the glass your looking from.
I'll keep going and not hide anything.
It could work out as a case of I told you so.
I'll just keep chipping away.
I'm away for a week then will get to the bottom of things on my return ?

 

[Tranona]

Isnt there a ruling about vat on secondhand boats pre a certain age i think that the duty is for the big flashy boats there more concerned about ???

No. Seems like a little knowledge is a dangerous thing in more ways than one. Prior to Brexit you could indeed have taken the boat to Spain without any difficulties - its age was essentially irrelevant - just means that it was "deemed VAT paid" under the terms of the VAT rules brought in the then EEC in 1992. However following Brexit the UK is now a third country, so you can take the boat to the EU without problems under Temporary Importation rules for up to 18 months. After that you have to remove it from the EU, although you can at a later date return for another 18 months. However if you keep it in Spain you will need to import it and pay EU/Spanish VAT and Spanish matriculation tax if you are resident. In addition it would need to be certified under the conditions of the RCD - which it almost certainly won't meet.

Those are the reasons why I suggested that you plan is impractical. Furthermore the boat is simply not suitable for the passage there. It is a racing boat designed and laid out to be sailed by a crew of 6 or 8 gorillas. Flush deck, huge rig with running backstays, exposed cockpit, tiny engine and so on. This is all without even considering its questionable construction and condition.

Ignore the odd person who suggests any boat is worth putting effort in to get a unique boat that you have made your own. Your boat is a bad starting point, which I guess is one of the reasons it lay unused for 12 years before the owner effectively gave it away.

 

[Revellers]

No. Seems like a little knowledge is a dangerous thing in more ways than one. Prior to Brexit you could indeed have taken the boat to Spain without any difficulties - its age was essentially irrelevant - just means that it was "deemed VAT paid" under the terms of the VAT rules brought in the then EEC in 1992. However following Brexit the UK is now a third country, so you can take the boat to the EU without problems under Temporary Importation rules for up to 18 months. After that you have to remove it from the EU, although you can at a later date return for another 18 months. However if you keep it in Spain you will need to import it and pay EU/Spanish VAT and Spanish matriculation tax if you are resident. In addition it would need to be certified under the conditions of the RCD - which it almost certainly won't meet.

Those are the reasons why I suggested that you plan is impractical. Furthermore the boat is simply not suitable for the passage there. It is a racing boat designed and laid out to be sailed by a crew of 8 or 8 gorillas. Flush deck, huge rig with running backstays, exposed cockpit, tiny engine and so on. This is all without even considering its questionable construction and condition.

Ignore the odd person who suggests any boat is worth putting effort in to get a unique boat that you have made your own. Your boat is a bad starting point, which I guess is one of the reasons it lay unused for 12 years before the owner effectively gave it away.

Yes I totally agree with you a little knowledge is very dangerous. I remember when I was 14 and the electrics in our house kept tripping. (there was a dead short on a new light bulb which was replaced we later found out)
Any way I held the tripping switch in the cupboard under the stairs on while my brother turned on the light.
Wow there was the loudest bang and flash I had ever seen. I came out looking like I had just been chimney sweeping.
I've just read this article
Cruising after Brexit and sailing in Europe - Yachting Monthly
What a nightmare. For what I can make out is you have to leave and have 24hrs to reset the clock to a non eu maybe morroco? I think Gibraltar a no no?
The guy who I purchased the boat from he's in his late 80s ex service man sailed with his wife and and other couple regular to France. When she was in her pride and glory.
Yes you have given me plenty to chew on now.
Many thanks for your input and making me aware of what I've taken on. I am listening. My friend he's brother a respected boat builder. Best take on further advice. The jury's out. But I'm still tempted to push the project forward.
I do know that I'm going dig deep into the condition of rot and construction.