Help/advice with imminent purchase of 20 ft sports boat

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AJ163

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All, am new to the forum so hello to all. I'm in the process of looking for a 20 foot sports boat for a bit of bay to bay, wakeboarding and tubing. I'm currently based in Cyprus and entitled to buy tax free and intend to bring the boat back to UK with me in a couple of years time.

However, I'm struggling to establish relative UK values for the boats I've looked at and wonder whether the deals I've been offered are decent or horrendous (I've tried browsing the various boat sale sites in UK but not helped much). The boats are all new and prices are:

  1. 2009 Bayliner 205 4.2 MPI Merc 220 Hp + Alpha 1, fibre liner & ext swim plat on trailer (28,000 Euro)
  2. 2010 Sea Ray 205 5.0 MPI Merc 260 Hp + Alpha 1, standard, no trailer (33,000 Euro)
  3. 2008 Monterey 194 FS - 5.0 MPI Merc 260 Hp + Bravo III, Wake tower, ext swim plat + trailer (28,000 Euro). (excuse ignorance here but had never previously heard of Monterey)
This is me looking to upgrade from my little 2 stroke Fletcher. So far the Monterey seems the best deal to my uneducated eye - though I've been advised that the better known Sea Ray name holds a better re-sale value. I don't know whether this is true. All 3 were lovely boats, but the Sea Ray and Bayliner didn't seem as nicely done as the Monterey.

These are tax free prices - the going rate out here for a 20 ft sports boat is around 40 K. How do the prices I've been quoted compare to back home in UK and how much could I expect to lose to depreciation after 2 or 3 years if sell back in UK.

Any advice or opinion would be appreciated as I have to decide on this over Xmas.

Thanks

AJ
 
These a big thirsty petrol engines - I can't give any specifics, but I do not think any of these will be easy to sell or hold their value well, when petrol at a marina is currently costing £1.20 + per litre.

If the £/$ rate is good when you come to sell, you may have some very cheap competition coming in from the USA to deal with also.

MVP
 
Really difficult call, mate. The UK market is in pieces at present so I wouldn't place any faith in UK price comparisons. Any UK price on a new boat will be influenced at least as much by how much stock they hold/how close to broke they are as anything else.

All three boats are fine, quality-wise, these days though there will be differences in fit and finish. If it seems like the right deal for you, then go for it... Depreciation right now will be even harder to second guess, given the state of the UK economy.
 
I don't see fuel economy on those boats being an issue - they are only 20 foot sport boats for wakeboarding, so they should come with big petrol engines. As to what they will be worth in a few years time, the only real answer is quite a bit less than the new price. Just have a look on boatsandoutboards and ebay to get some idea.

Of the three boats you list, the Monterey looks like it has everything you need, but if you don't want to lose too much money, the only answer is don't buy new.
 
In terms of perceived image, the order might be Sea Ray, Monterey,Bayliner. Check the actual hull length,bcz its very popular to call a boat by one name that isnt the actual length. Or stick on a metre of bathing platform for 800 euros and pretend the boat is now worth 5k more ! Hull length is what you want to be paying for.
Watersports use alot of fuel bcz of the constant starts.. 5 litre engine might top out at 60lph, as a guess, though thats under way, not stop/start etc. IE, you arent running it all 60 mins in an hour. But it gives you an idea of fuel cost, as you seem to think it wont be much ? Maybe £2-3k a year in UK in fuel, for regular use.
I dont think one boat will sell better or worse over here. Assume you ll lose 1/2 its value in three years, and maybe you wont get too bad a heart attack.
 
Our nfirst boat was a 22 ft Searay. Nice boat, well built, and easy to sell. They do have a quality advantage over the others.

All your prices seem quite high to me. Have you looked at importing from the US? With the current €/$ exchange rate, you could do well, despite the shipping costs.
 
Having worked on all three of these makes I would agree with most of the above, Searea best image and return on your money but Monteray best buy abd probebly best built. You will never get your money back on any of them at those prices and you will have to pay import duty and VAT when you bring them back to the UK. CE mark well worth checking as they are worthless in UK without it.

Gary
 
I m no expert on this, but they probably wont export it CE plated, as it isnt doing much of a favour to their UK dealerships...
I agree, on 20ft boat there isnt alot of difference..but you still need someone to inspect the boat and tic off as required. It used be be a few grand...
 
Thanks for all the comments so far guys. Reference the import costs +tax for back in to the UK, fortunately they don't apply for me as I'm military.

The costs out here do seem very high and I have been thinking about whether its worth importing in from the USA, but then I have to worry about CE and shipping, which I think is contributing to the high prices out here. And I have wondered where would I end up if the boat arrives in pieces???

GJGM - you mentioned something about the boat having to be ticked off? Is this in as much as that it complies with current rules in EU/UK if imported independently by me?

I've tried researching on Boat24, Outboards website, Ebay et al to try and get a comparison, but struggled to find any other new boats this size with the 5.0 V8 and the Bravo III drive. I did find an ex-demo Fletcher Wakesport (love my little Fletcher at mo) with 260 Hp and BravoIII in the UK and the asking for it was around the 25,000 sterling mark.

I've also looked at the used option here - this might sound a bit crazy- but all the 18 - 20 Ft boats I looked at out here that are 1 or 2 years old, including Four Winns, Maxum, Sea Ray, most with the standard 3.0 or 4.3 litre engine were selling for over 28,000 Euros, so with the Monterey or the Bayliner I'd be paying less buying it new due to the tax free.

Sounds like its going to come down to whether am willing to pay.........but have a day or two do mull it over, so any other comments welcome


Thanks

AJ
 
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Not sure I understand your entiltlement to non Vat on a personal import back to the UK, if you are elegible for non payment as part of a military perk then I appologise.
On the sale of any imported goods within the UK/EU you will need to prove to the purchaser that VAT has been paid at some point & an invoice with VAT paid proof will be required by the broker/purchaser before entering into negotiations, otherwise the purchaser will want to reduce their offer by the amount of outstanding VAT leaving you without the financial advantage that you are expecting.

For my money I would be looking at the monterey, searay have had their day, monterey are definitley on the wish list of many a sportsboat buyers, with good residual values here in the UK.
 
Suppose you could call it a perk - without going into all the ins and outs, certain areas that are owned by the British military within foreign countries historically had aggreements where you could buy tax and duty free - generally applied to vehicles. As long as you take the vehicle to the UK when you leave the country and hold on to it in UK for several months prior to selling, you are not liable for tax or duty. You'll find this is also common for a lot of diplomats.

Cheers for the opinion reference the Montereys, sounds good.
 
Ok for what its worth, you talk of buying a boat in Cyprus, Yachts, mobos etc are cheap out here, small mobos are the exact opposite! very expensive!
First of all, will the boat be Greek registered? I have a Brit registered and a Greek registered mobo. If I were to buy again it would be from boats and outboards etc far cheaper, get it out here on an SSR float it for six months, no problems, and cheaper (did i say cheaper) buy a small mobo in Greece you will pay tax on the sale before it can be registered. I have had to do all of this with the port police. You want to take it back to the uk? no probs, SSR it, hitch it up and tow it back! keep it, sell it, no probs. The uk is one of the only european countries where you can buy a small boat from e-bay etc, tow it home and use it the same day.
I hope i will never have to return back to the uk, if I do, my small boat will follow behind me on a trailer, I will SSR it first and thats IT! Greek beurocrasy does not know what day it is, no one will know. They are more concerned at the moment from collecting the new road tax, 712 euros for a four track KIA!
 
Davy - agree with the small boat prices - here going rate for certain 18 /19 Ft makes with 3.0 L mercruiser is 40 K euros (tax paid), but I don't understand why they're so expensive. Empathise with taxing the car - I've got a disco and get whacked for it as well!!!

Ref registering - technically it will be a UK registered boat (tho is actually a dependant sovereign area). My current boat is a Cypriot registered Fletcher.

Regarding the tax - long story but I don't have to pay any out here (just like I don't need an ICC, RYA covers me) and as far as I'm aware (though I've never done it) I can buy tax free from the UK, import to here and NOT pay any tax. That is provided it is a new boat - if used then I get hit.

Excuse the ignorance - but what is SSR??

Also, sods law, spoke to a UK monterey dealer today, he reckoned could do a 2010 194 FS, 5.0 engine, Bravo III for 25 K Sterling (not including any options). The Monterey here is an unused 2008 with all the options on it, for 28 K Euros.

To import or to go with a local dealer..................heads beginning to hurt and need a drink lol :confused:
 
SSR stands for small ships registry, you need the use of a uk address to get one, used to be 25 squid for 5 years, i think it has gone up slightly but someone will correct me . If you have an SSR it is useful if you get asked towing across europe, ferries etc.
By the way, I know of a Brit reg Searay 175, 3.00 mercruiser, trailer, lots of new bits, good nick, owner has serious health problem, boat on Kefalonia, not moved since last summer, then only used for two day trips. Runs well but battery probably flat, boat covered up and left standing in garden.
I think 7,500 euros ish.
 
Enterprise......I know what I can do regarding tax and duty free - and for me it is above board.
 
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Davy, with you now - I don't know if I could do that I'm going to ask the local British customs guys. The address part is easy, I'm still a UK resident even though living here at moment. Cheers for the info ref the Sea Ray, but after something with a bit more pop in it - if I can find it in budget lol
 
Hi again

Hi AJ163, forgive my ignorance, I just thought you needed to know, if you search for Vat related threads on here you will understand the importance (or not) of the original invoice and paperwork, and im no expert, (far from it), purchase the best you can afford.
Monterey would still be my choice, others will have their favorites too but I had a decent blast round in a 218LSC and the ride was superb, no experience of either searay or bayliner though so my judgement migh be flawed.
Good luck with your search, have a great christmas and new year.
 
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