HELP!! 3 way fridge. Flue hight above waterline??

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MANXPEDRO

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RAMSEY, ISLE OF MAN
www.ramseybedandbreakfast.com
Ahoy there!

I'm thinking about fitting an electrolux 3 way fridge to my 28' Colvic Northerner. My only concern, is the flue.
Does anybody have any experiance of fitting one to a boat?

1. What is the reccomended hight above the waterline i could install the flue?
2. is the a 'marinised'?? skin fitting for these fridges?
3. What is the outlet diameter of the flue, from the fridge?
4. What is the maximum length of flue i could get away with? (i only ask this, as i dont have good access to the hullside from the localtion of the fridge, but i can with a longer run of flue pipe).

Very many thanks in advance!!

Regards,

Manxpedro.
 
MANXPEDRO said:
Ahoy there!

I'm thinking about fitting an electrolux 3 way fridge to my 28' Colvic Northerner. My only concern, is the flue.
Does anybody have any experiance of fitting one to a boat?

1. What is the reccomended hight above the waterline i could install the flue?
2. is the a 'marinised'?? skin fitting for these fridges?
3. What is the outlet diameter of the flue, from the fridge?
4. What is the maximum length of flue i could get away with? (i only ask this, as i dont have good access to the hullside from the localtion of the fridge, but i can with a longer run of flue pipe).

Very many thanks in advance!!

Regards,

Manxpedro.
Click to expand...

i have seen them with a spiral flue terminating through a mushroom vent
 
I have one in my caravan (sad s*d, eh?). It runs very well on mains and also on 12v, though not very economical. On gas, usually the preferred option, it needs to be as near upright as possible so that the flame heats the bulb. I was once parked on a hillside for a week unable to get the van level, so no fridge. In effect, I'd be surprised if it will run effectively on gas unless moored. It would be advisable to ensure the door is not opened more than necessary to conserve temperature.

If you have the battery capacity, it may prove more effective to run for short periods on 12V whilst sailing.

The whole contraption requires a convection current to be established through the casing. Normally this is done with a vent at floor level and another vent around the flue, which also helps isolate the flue's heat from surrounding materials. I have heard of gas fridges being successfully installed on yachts, so most of the above is just precautionary!

I guess the answer to your question is "as high as possible".

Rob.
 
not a good idea to have one of those fridges working on gas.

mains or 12v would be ok, but working on gas is not a good idea, it works with a pilot light which could go out at any time, then you will have a recipe for disaster.

pwelhelli catamaran blew up using one of those fridges. buy a proper marine one if you like to be safe....they don't have gas for a reason= its safer....



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQ833ETMk5U
 
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thanks for your replies!

HHMMMMM. You've got me thinking now.!!
My berth is not far from the 240v supply, so thats not too bad. My Colvics a motor boat, not a sailing one, so a readily supply of 12v while at sea. The gas side of things, will be when im not near a berth with a shore supply near by, and the engine will be off.
So the gas will be used very little, however, it needs to be right.

I've not long installed a propex heater, with a skin fitting (see picture) and a gooseneck of pipe inside the boat, to prevent water ingress. I was wondering if i could fit the flue to a similar type of skin fitting??

I also have a multi-point gas alarm fitted.

I agree that the flue should be as high as possible, but if it went straight up through the deck head, the cowl will be in front of the wheelhouse window, right in front of the steering position!!! Also, it'll be a trip hazard.

The one i'm going to view this afternoon, is only working on gas at the minute. He tells me the mains and 12v side of things are not working, but with anyluck, it might be a poor electrical connection which'll be easy to sort out, but i see that parts are readily available online. It'll be totally fixed before final installation.
 
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rob2 said:
If you have the battery capacity, it may prove more effective to run for short periods on 12V whilst sailing.
Click to expand...

Problem with that is this kind of fridge is terribly inefficient when running on electricity.

Fridges which can work by burning things use the "absorbtion cycle" instead of the compression / expansion mechanism we're more used to. I've forgotten the details, but it's all about ammonia and water and hydrogen dissolving in and out of each other in cunningly-shaped pipes. The cunning shape is why they need to stay upright - even if Rob could have heated the bulb in his tilted caravan, the fridge still probably wouldn't have worked well or at all.

At one point in the cycle, heat is applied to evaporate one chemical out of another and power the whole thing. This is good in that you get to use gas or paraffin instead of electricity, but bad in that if you do choose to use electricity you're essentially running a small toaster or hairdrier off your batteries. We all know that anything which produces heat is bad news for power consumption - turning the mechanical compressor in a conventional electric-only fridge is much more efficient.

I looked into this stuff as part of a thought-experiment in designing a liveaboard boat in which no major equipment was powered by electricity (idea was to run an absorbtion fridge via a heat coil in a diesel stove) but concluded it wasn't really practical.

Pete
 
MANXPEDRO said:
Ahoy there!

I'm thinking about fitting an electrolux 3 way fridge to my 28' Colvic Northerner. My only concern, is the flue.
Does anybody have any experiance of fitting one to a boat?

1. What is the reccomended hight above the waterline i could install the flue?
2. is the a 'marinised'?? skin fitting for these fridges?
3. What is the outlet diameter of the flue, from the fridge?
4. What is the maximum length of flue i could get away with? (i only ask this, as i dont have good access to the hullside from the localtion of the fridge, but i can with a longer run of flue pipe).

Very many thanks in advance!!

Regards,

Manxpedro.
Click to expand...


If its like the caravan type, when running on 12volt the performance is very poor - designed I think mostly to keep the contents cool with the door shut while under tow with the car alternator provising the juice. Not up to maintaining things frozen for long for instance. I think on 12volts they are not much different to one of those 12v electric cool boxes. They run fine on 240v but need to be level.

You don't say whether this is for a seagoing boat or inland waterways.
 
fergie_mac66 said:
a lot of catalacs were fitted with them
Click to expand...

Mine is still fitted with a gas fridge. Also uses 240 and 12 volt though its not wired up for 12v. Works very well even when sailing and stays alight 99% of the time. If it does go out the thermal couple shuts down the 'burner'. Mine vents into the cabin and a check with a CO meter showed that I should worry more about the cooker before anyone comments. When in marinas I normally use 240 volt to save gas. A 4.5 kg calor gas bottle normally lasts a week with the fridge always on and the cooker used as 'normal'.

Did think about moving the flue to outside on the hull but it would be another hole for water to enter and what happens to fenders when another boat moors alongside when you aren't on board and the fender is against a hot flue?

I should also add that the freezer section is very good at producing ice for the G&T
 
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Boathook said:
Mine is still fitted with a gas fridge. Also uses 240 and 12 volt though its not wired up for 12v. Works very well even when sailing and stays alight 99% of the time. If it does go out the thermal couple shuts down the 'burner'. Mine vents into the cabin and a check with a CO meter showed that I should worry more about the cooker before anyone comments. When in marinas I normally use 240 volt to save gas. A 4.5 kg calor gas bottle normally lasts a week with the fridge always on and the cooker used as 'normal'.

Did think about moving the flue to outside on the hull but it would be another hole for water to enter and what happens to fenders when another boat moors alongside when you aren't on board and the fender is against a hot flue?

I should also add that the freezer section is very good at producing ice for the G&T
Click to expand...

we are hoping to refit one when I can find one !The last owner removed it .
 
Waco in what is a clever marketing ploy, make or used to make a 12 volt / 220 volt fridge with a danfoss compressor that is the exact same dimensions as the Electrolux 3-way fridge.

Had an Electrolux in my boat - fed by an unsupported gas pipe. Due to fresh / sea water getting down the back of the fridge via the vent in the cockpit bulkhead the burner and most of the gear at the back of the fridge was rotten - accident waiting to happen.

Waco fridge was 500 plus quid but worth it for peace of mind.

Bob
 
I had one fitted in a previous yacht. Didn't try and run it on gas at sea but worked ok at anchor on gas. Worked well on 240v but 12v worked only in the cooler months and then it drew about 25A. Ours was mounted under the bridgedeck and vented to the cockpit via a short flue. Didn't seem to blow out much and had a auto cutout for the gas if it did. It used a 9kg bottle of gas in about 3 weeks. If you run it full time on gas you will need to decoke it every year or so. Electrolux used to supply a kit for this. The performance on gas gradually drops off. Was a right pain to get out so in the end we changed to a 12v compressor model which performed much better. The 3 way would make ice but it was rubbish at pulling down a load of shopping. Especially in the tropics. Given the current price of gas, the payback on a change to a compressor model and solar panel to run it would only be a couple of seasons.
 
had an electrolux in out 9 meter catalac ran for 10 years no problem .Ideal on cats as they dont heel particularly as we only have an outboard with only an outboards charging capacity hence will fit another when we get one on our current 8m. The old one packed it due to corrosion hence its removal .
 
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Fridge

I just instictively feel that gas fridges are a bad way to go. Get a WACO or similar. I got a little 25cft recently for about 300squid on special for the car. (Yeah things are cheaper in Oz) it draws 5 amps when running and seems to be very powerful, able to freeze contents over some hours if you ask it to.
I am not sure about the Danfoss compressor however as the box says made in China.
I would recommend something similar plus 240v battery charger and perhaps a Voltage sensing relay to turn the fridge on when engine running or charger on. (or similar switching) then run it to max cold risking freezing drinks etc but so it will (if you want) stay cold for some time power off. Extra insulation may be useful once it is turned off. olewill
 
Thank you all for your ideas and comments!

To reply to a few earlier comments, my boat IS seagoing, but only coastal, not round the world, so never more than a few hours away from a port!

My intention is to vent the flue out through a skin fitting via the side of the hull. Before it goes through the skin fitting, there will be a swan neck inside, to prevent water going into the flue pipe.

The boat is NEVER left unattended with the gas on, so no worry about others fenders melting!!!!


I feel there's a 50/50 sort of balance for and against these fridges, from what people say.

Well, I bought one yesterday. A second hand one from a horsebox! (I'd love a new one, but SWMBO could find more uses with the money than spent on a fridge!!).

Anyway, it cost me £30. He said the 12 and 240 side of things were not working, but the gas was. I took it home, cleaned it down and plugged it into the mains. After a couple of hours, i'd made ice, and the box was starting to cool down!!!! I've not tried the gas or 12v yet, but need to rig up a supply (job for today!!).

Now I need to look into the T-shaped fitting, which fits onto the outlet of the burner. It is on an angle where the gasses will go up through the pipe, but will also be able to vent 'downwards'?? back into the area around the back of the fridge area. Any ideas???

Thanks again to you all for helping me with this!
 
The gas exhaust needs to vent directly outside through the fitting suppled, and adding any kind of swan neck will just result in fumes inside the boat. I have had these fridges in caravans, and suggest that you install it as electric only, with no gas connection. The 12 volt side is easily fixed if not working, as the element is a spare you can buy from a caravan dealer.

I always found them more efficient on mains than on 12 volts, so you might consider an inverter if you are only going to use it either when on shore connection, or with the engine running. Another point to understand is that they radiate heat from the finned pipes on the back, and you must provide enough ventilation of that area. For use in caravans there are always ventilator panels in the caravan side directly behind the fridge. You cannot do that in a boat, and will probably have to rig up a small fan to provide forced ventilation if you want it to work well once installed.
 
the gas side works fine if they are fitted correctly the flame is the barely same size as a pilot light on a heating system! . I you are careful and gas aware and check that the flame failure device works correctly . Wouldn't want to use it on gas at sea on monohull sailor .
 
I have had this type of fridge/freezer in camper vans for many years. The instruction manual for the Electrolux Dometic says that 230 volts and gas are more effective than 12 volts. However, all the ones I have owned will not run off 12 volt batteries only, they run off about 13.5 volts or so, i.e. only when the engine is running.
 
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