Ade_Lucas
New Member
Does any one know of a remedy for the fear of the boat heeling - I have explained about the ton of iron bolted to the bottom of the boat and the laws of physics but to no avail.
Heeling over
- Thread starter Ade_Lucas
- Start date
fireball
Well-Known Member
Give them the mainsheet so they can pull it in and let it out - it could be a control fear ?
It is really odd when you first get in a yacht from a dinghy ... but you soon get used to it!
It is really odd when you first get in a yacht from a dinghy ... but you soon get used to it!
PeteCooper
Well-Known Member
Nobody knows the answer to this. Many have tried the 'laws of physics' approach, but to some people it is as irrational as fear of spiders. Sail very gently keeping the boat upright until he or she who is not happy becomes more confident. As confidence increases then perhaps allow a little more heel, but not too much, as some modern boats do not handle well if heeled too far.
mikemonty
Well-Known Member
There is little you can do to help someone who is anxious about this.
When I introduced my family to sailing I had the problem... at first I set a limit on the heel by giving a fixed reference.
eg. "see that curve on the coachroof? I won't heel the boat any further than to where that is horizontal"
As time went on, (2 years plus) the families confidence grew, to the point that my wife will now quite happily helm with the gunwhales in the water. (not that that's necessarily a good thing!)
Only other suggestion is a simple, safe demonstration with a wine glass floating in the sink - illustrates the point fairly well.
When I introduced my family to sailing I had the problem... at first I set a limit on the heel by giving a fixed reference.
eg. "see that curve on the coachroof? I won't heel the boat any further than to where that is horizontal"
As time went on, (2 years plus) the families confidence grew, to the point that my wife will now quite happily helm with the gunwhales in the water. (not that that's necessarily a good thing!)
Only other suggestion is a simple, safe demonstration with a wine glass floating in the sink - illustrates the point fairly well.
Searush
Well-Known Member
Get it right on its ear & then lean over the windward side to show 'em the keel!
We had a couple of years off sailing while undergoing major work and when we went back to cruising my Daughter-in-law and Grand-daughter went ape when it leant! After years of them not batting an eyelid it rather startled me.
Last year, heading to Bardsey over the Tripods, we broached & a wave broke over the cockpit soaking us all. I ducked & laughed, they looked terrified, then realised that it had all sorted itself out by the time they realised what had happened.
They still don't like strong winds, rough waters, but do realise that the boat can stand more than we can.
You could try demonstrating with a pond yacht, they are often overcanvassed and sail on their ear. Or, how about a "wobbly man" budgie toy?
We had a couple of years off sailing while undergoing major work and when we went back to cruising my Daughter-in-law and Grand-daughter went ape when it leant! After years of them not batting an eyelid it rather startled me.
Last year, heading to Bardsey over the Tripods, we broached & a wave broke over the cockpit soaking us all. I ducked & laughed, they looked terrified, then realised that it had all sorted itself out by the time they realised what had happened.
They still don't like strong winds, rough waters, but do realise that the boat can stand more than we can.
You could try demonstrating with a pond yacht, they are often overcanvassed and sail on their ear. Or, how about a "wobbly man" budgie toy?
starfire
Well-Known Member
Remember my first time on a yacht. Had spent most of my time on mobo's. yacht heeled over & I wondered what was wrong, scrambled up to the high side & stayed there.
Soon felt normal though & has done ever since.
few years ago, chartered in Greece, crew (family) were a little rusty & a daughters boyfriend had never been on a boat before.
So, I hired a skipper for the day while I did the basics of comp crew with them.
later on, said boyfriend is sat on the low rail, feet in the water.
So me & the skipper wound things up a little, expecting the mad scramble, rails in the water, he is still sat there so we gave up. when asked about this later, he said 'never been on a yacht before so thought it was normal' Cool kid !
Soon felt normal though & has done ever since.
few years ago, chartered in Greece, crew (family) were a little rusty & a daughters boyfriend had never been on a boat before.
So, I hired a skipper for the day while I did the basics of comp crew with them.
later on, said boyfriend is sat on the low rail, feet in the water.
So me & the skipper wound things up a little, expecting the mad scramble, rails in the water, he is still sat there so we gave up. when asked about this later, he said 'never been on a yacht before so thought it was normal' Cool kid !
Fin
Well-Known Member
Buy a cat........... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
mikemonty
Well-Known Member
It's one way!
But a bit of a gamble - if your anxious crew don't take to the "deep end" approach you might lose them as sailing companions forever.
I know that if I'd gone that route with my family, the boat would have been sold at the end of the season.
I tend to go with the "in control" approach. Make sure your crew know that you (or they)can stop the boat heeling any time you want - introduce them to luffing up and easing the sheets - and give them control of either one of these options, sheets or tiller. A bit like a dual control car - either party can stop the car/boat from crashing/heeling at any time.
But a bit of a gamble - if your anxious crew don't take to the "deep end" approach you might lose them as sailing companions forever.
I know that if I'd gone that route with my family, the boat would have been sold at the end of the season.
I tend to go with the "in control" approach. Make sure your crew know that you (or they)can stop the boat heeling any time you want - introduce them to luffing up and easing the sheets - and give them control of either one of these options, sheets or tiller. A bit like a dual control car - either party can stop the car/boat from crashing/heeling at any time.
Searush
Well-Known Member
I was being a little tongue in cheek. But it was what happened to me - as you say, not suitable for everyone!
To some extent, the families lack of interest in understanding the mechanics of sailing means that they HAVE to trust me if they want to enjoy the beaches & wildlife.
I would prefer it if they showed more interest in helping me sail the boat, but they don't. It's their choice, I won't force 'em as that would be counterproductive. I do answer any questions they ask & talk about where it is safe to go (or not) and why. They then just accept what I say. I wonder if I should try teasing them a bit?
To some extent, the families lack of interest in understanding the mechanics of sailing means that they HAVE to trust me if they want to enjoy the beaches & wildlife.
I would prefer it if they showed more interest in helping me sail the boat, but they don't. It's their choice, I won't force 'em as that would be counterproductive. I do answer any questions they ask & talk about where it is safe to go (or not) and why. They then just accept what I say. I wonder if I should try teasing them a bit?
Talbot
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Does any one know of a remedy for the fear of the boat heeling - I have explained about the ton of iron bolted to the bottom of the boat and the laws of physics but to no avail.
[/ QUOTE ]
A catamaran - sometimes the only answer for the SWMBO who hates heeling (like mine used to)
Does any one know of a remedy for the fear of the boat heeling - I have explained about the ton of iron bolted to the bottom of the boat and the laws of physics but to no avail.
[/ QUOTE ]
A catamaran - sometimes the only answer for the SWMBO who hates heeling (like mine used to)
bluedragon
Well-Known Member
Yes...get a little model yacht with a keel (or make a simple mock-up out of wood). Fill the bath and float it. Keep knocking it down and have whoever is concerned watch it pop back up. Then get them to do it and tell them to try their hardest to stop this happening. Then explain that's exactly the same with any ballasted keel boat. Job done (in most cases)...
PS - this worked for my wife when we switched from dinghies to keel boats (and I'd trapped her under our Enterprise a few times /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif)
PS - this worked for my wife when we switched from dinghies to keel boats (and I'd trapped her under our Enterprise a few times /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif)
Noddy
Well-Known Member
Yeah! - Buy a Cat!
Victorious
Well-Known Member
The more the boat heels.. The harder the wieght of the ballast/keel works to right the boat.
I reckon that much has been well established.
Nobody seems to have mentioned the fact that the more the boat heels.. the greater the angle of the mast, and thus the force of the wind on the sails diminishes.
I reckon that much has been well established.
Nobody seems to have mentioned the fact that the more the boat heels.. the greater the angle of the mast, and thus the force of the wind on the sails diminishes.
mikemonty
Well-Known Member
This isn't likely to cut much ice with a nervous passenger!
ShipsWoofy
Well-Known Member
nah, they just fall over don't they?
wotayottie
Well-Known Member
One definite cure and one partial. The definite was to buy a catamaran - worked splendidly for years but the trouble was the cat was boring and no fun to sail. Back now with a mono, the partial cure is for her to be on the helm.
The model boat or laws of physics approaches are useless - they are rational arguments and women arent rational creatures. I mean , would she have married me if she was?
So for a "sailing fix" I go racing with the lads. When swmbo is aboard either she helms ofr we motor to windward. Its the price of the game.
The model boat or laws of physics approaches are useless - they are rational arguments and women arent rational creatures. I mean , would she have married me if she was?
So for a "sailing fix" I go racing with the lads. When swmbo is aboard either she helms ofr we motor to windward. Its the price of the game.
AliM
Well-Known Member
It's all about control and trust. Does your partner (wife, child, whoever) really trust you to get out of what they sense is danger? Explaining will help, but not very much, because it's a balance reflex - if you were leaning like that in normal life, you'd fall over, so you should be doing something about it. If you've sailed dinghies, you also know that heeling to the gunwales awash stage is usually followed by a swim!
Some people will never get used to it. Some would if they had a sympathetic teacher/partner, but may be past hope now, after too many macho sails. It also helps if it is pleasant (apart from the heeling) I.e. if it's cold and p***ing down, then the heeling is the final straw, but if it's warm, sunny and a nice anchorage awaits, then a bit of heeling is easier to put up with!
If you are starting out, then go for the explanation + control (mainsheet + explanation) or allowing them to helm (with you standing by to give reassurance). Start with benign conditions and reef early if necessary (or motor to windward). Give them a task (no, not making the sandwiches!). Lots of understanding, and not making them feel they are awkward will help, and share decisions (ie if either of you suggest to reef, or go home early, or motor, then take the more cautious suggestion - it's all control again.)
I know what I'm talking about - I've been there, and still have my limits!
Or buy a cat...
Good luck
Some people will never get used to it. Some would if they had a sympathetic teacher/partner, but may be past hope now, after too many macho sails. It also helps if it is pleasant (apart from the heeling) I.e. if it's cold and p***ing down, then the heeling is the final straw, but if it's warm, sunny and a nice anchorage awaits, then a bit of heeling is easier to put up with!
If you are starting out, then go for the explanation + control (mainsheet + explanation) or allowing them to helm (with you standing by to give reassurance). Start with benign conditions and reef early if necessary (or motor to windward). Give them a task (no, not making the sandwiches!). Lots of understanding, and not making them feel they are awkward will help, and share decisions (ie if either of you suggest to reef, or go home early, or motor, then take the more cautious suggestion - it's all control again.)
I know what I'm talking about - I've been there, and still have my limits!
Or buy a cat...
Good luck
Lakesailor
Well-Known Member
When I first went sailing at about 15 it never occurred to me that heeling would be dangerous.
Later I would go sailing with a friend, who himself was a bit cautious about heeling. That rubs off.
When I got my own boat I started with an acute awareness of the angle-of-dangle, but soon mastered the art of controlling the boat to my complete satisfaction (I'm easily pleased).
I love the balancing act and the feeling of the wind exerting it's power over the boat.
But, like having a nervous passenger in a car, it unsettles me when a passenger is a bit windy. It makes me wonder if they know something I don't.
The clue seems to be when they prefer to stand in the companionway rather than sit on the weather side of the cockpit. (which is a slightly self-defeating option)
The answer would seem to be gentle with them. Or get them to do a dinghy-sailing course.
Later I would go sailing with a friend, who himself was a bit cautious about heeling. That rubs off.
When I got my own boat I started with an acute awareness of the angle-of-dangle, but soon mastered the art of controlling the boat to my complete satisfaction (I'm easily pleased).
I love the balancing act and the feeling of the wind exerting it's power over the boat.
But, like having a nervous passenger in a car, it unsettles me when a passenger is a bit windy. It makes me wonder if they know something I don't.
The clue seems to be when they prefer to stand in the companionway rather than sit on the weather side of the cockpit. (which is a slightly self-defeating option)
The answer would seem to be gentle with them. Or get them to do a dinghy-sailing course.
cliffordpope
Well-Known Member
It's not totally irational, if you have experienced dinghy sailing. In a strong wind dinghies of the racing kind do fall over. Even a solid old ex-naval clinker dinghy we sailed at school could be capsized if one tried, simply by putting the gunwhale under for too long and not bailing fast enough.
It is quite rational to be scared of being in the water trapped by a capsized or water-logged boat, caught in ropes.
The answer is to demonstrate that all is under control, and that letting out the sheet or turning into the wind does reduce the heel if it really did become too much.
It is quite rational to be scared of being in the water trapped by a capsized or water-logged boat, caught in ropes.
The answer is to demonstrate that all is under control, and that letting out the sheet or turning into the wind does reduce the heel if it really did become too much.
alistairedw
Well-Known Member
I do most of my sailing in racing dinghies, where heeling is bad, unless you like going slowly and/or capsizing.
One of the key principles of dinghy sailing is that 'flat is fast'. I think this also works well when sailing yachts. I enjoy sailing fast upwind but I really do not find it particularly comfortable when the boat is heeling excessively.
My yachting experience is fairly limited in comparison to most people here but I have generally found that putting in a reef makes the sailing much more pleasant and has little effect on boat speed.
My wife and daughter will tolerate moderate heeling, but I have learned not to put up too much sail. I actually feel that the instinctive aversion to excessive heeling may be a good thing.
One of the key principles of dinghy sailing is that 'flat is fast'. I think this also works well when sailing yachts. I enjoy sailing fast upwind but I really do not find it particularly comfortable when the boat is heeling excessively.
My yachting experience is fairly limited in comparison to most people here but I have generally found that putting in a reef makes the sailing much more pleasant and has little effect on boat speed.
My wife and daughter will tolerate moderate heeling, but I have learned not to put up too much sail. I actually feel that the instinctive aversion to excessive heeling may be a good thing.
