Heating in dinky boats..

[Neraida]

Right then, after turning blue overnight on saturday at the folly, we are investigating various ways of heating Neraida.

Now, save un-bolting a Eberspacher system I know in a HR42 I know of, i have found that I could probably get all the bits we need for about 300 squid from ebay for the D1LC unit, a S/S box, some pipework, ignition/timing stuff, skin fittings and a little tank. (probalob out of a BT van!)

But!! is there any other way that is gonna heat the boat effectively and safely without all this weight?? (about 15kg's) Neraida is stripped out (nearly) at the mo, and will remain "open plan".

Claire says that if it cost any more than £300 it would be a waste of money, and I agree. But I think that a system such as the eberspacher will "dry the boat out". Is this correct?

Cheers gang.

PS. I would get "flattened" at the suggestion of a solid fuel stove!!

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[bedouin]

Suggestion one - buy a warmer duvet

Suggestion two - a mains fan heater

This is a question that has been exercising my mind a lot recently - I am reluctant to go to the effort and expense of fitting an eberspacher or equivalent for the very few times we need it - and for someone with only an outboard motor (and therefore I assume only limited battery capacity) it makes even less sense.

As it happens, the latest Nauticalia catalogue turned up today - and that contains two possible solutions. The first is a paraffin lantern which is so powerful that it can be converted into a stove - the second is a nifty little device that sits on top of a (portable) hob and converts it into a radiator. I am seriously considering one of those.

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[BrendanS]

I use a fan heater with thermostat when shore power available.

When away from shore power I find one of those flat very stable portable gas hobs works admirably (without the gadget, but I must get one to try sometime) You need a few gas canisters for a cold weekend in February though.

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[Robin]

The latter 2 ideas both will create moisture as well as heat, so condensation will be worse. The fan heater solution works very well if you can arrange shorepower for winter destinations, dry and warm at low cost and no battery drain.

For self contained heating an alternative to Eberspacher is the reconditioned Propex Gas warm air units from The Calor Centre at Southampton, about 1500w of heat for about £600 if memory serves correct. Also look at Wallas paraffin heaters (similar warm air) or Taylors diesel/paraffin stoves.



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[NigeCh]

Dinky boats .. Sailing overwinter

4 season sleeping bag's are all you need plus an oil lamp.

In spite of what Charles Reed says about me (see below) not having kissed the Blarney Stone, I sail the UK waters all the year round. If you and Claire haven't got proper breathable non-down sleeping bags that you can sleep in fully dressed to dry your clothes out, then you'll shiver and shiver and shiver.

Cripes, there you were up the Medina and feeling cold on the warmest November weekend on record ... Are you and Claire wimps?

If you and Claire are not wimps then batten down the hatches, close the wasboards, get an oil lamp and fleeces. If you and Claire are wimps then get an Eberspracher and a chimney.

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[StugeronSteve]

Whatever you choose (other than an electric fan heater) spend a few extra quid on a CO detector. You don't want to end up sleeping too well!

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[BrendanS]

Re: Dinky boats .. Sailing overwinter

Agree about 4 season sleeping bag. Essential on a cold night. Mine are courtesy of my hill walking/climbing days - would sleep fully clothed in wet gear in snow holes or tents, almost dry by morning. Boats are sheer luxury by comparison.

In reply to Robin's point, a small gas hob will produce very little water vapour. Condensation due to heating up the space is far more of a problem in comparison. Ventilation is the key - although it seems logical to cut off all draughts, you'll be more comfortable if you have a few.

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[muchy_]

Re: Dinky boats .. Sailing overwinter

Apparently (I haven't tried it) but if you get a flower pot (clay not plastic ;-) and put it on one of the cooker rings to heat up, it acts like a radiant in a gas fire. Use quite a big one. Makes sense I spose, worth a try?

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[BarryH]

Get an unglazed flower pot. One of those terracota ones. Turn it upside down on top of the cokker thingy and it tends to give a better heat than just the ring. Test it at home first though to make sure theres no voids in it. They tend to crack and sometimes explode a little bit.
Fan heater is by far the best bet though!

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[BarryH]

Re: Dinky boats .. Sailing overwinter

snap!

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[sailorman]

i had a wallis b/head heater some years agoit very rearly worked properly,it was expessive & a total waste of money

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[qsiv]

Despite having tons of space, displacement and diesel available we have (as fitted by the builders) a number of the little cubic ceramic heaters, which work exceptionally well. We can even (for a party trick) run thenm off the inverter although the ammeter has problems if we run more than one at a time (it stops registering at about 120 amps!).

Joking aside - they have thermostatically controlled fans, so once you are up to temperature they cut right back, and if on shore power can be left ticking over all night. We have two in the saloon, and one on a wandering lead that gets used in the doghouse - even on cold night passages.

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[heerenleed]

It all depends on your possibilities for recharging your batteries.
Ebersprecher and Webasto, Mikuni etc. are OK as long as you have to use them occasioonally only. They are toys really, and if you have to rely on them on a more regular basis, they are bound to let you down.

The Wallas diesel types are just as good (or bad), the Wallas paraffin type is a lot better, but you do need to use the purified fuel that it needs. Any other (cheaper) paraffin will turn the heater useless.

But on a smaller boat I would only want the Origo alcohol heater which doubles as an extra stove. Had one years ago on a 7 metre wooden dutch classic 'schouw' and it worked a treat. Low-tech, fuel easy to come by, weighs nothing and can be kicked off the boat in summer. I still regret I gave it away when that boat was sold....

<hr width=100% size=1>Peter a/b SV Heerenleed, Steenbergen, Netherlands

 

[Peppermint]

I use ebersbacher's in my fleet of trucks. They are effective but I wouldn't consider fitting them without a dedicated battery. They eat amps no matter what their tec's say. You will also need a fuel tank. They do diesel or petrol heaters.

I also use plantpots and the idea of taking a 8" or 10" inch pot sailing is not appealing.

If you use naked flame heaters you need plenty of ventilation and you will experience condensation. If it's LPG you need to change over to propane for the winter, butane gets a bit sticky in the winter.

If all else fails, hike into town a try bed and breakfast

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[Talbot]

The disadvantage of both these solutions is that you are pumping wet air into the boat. The eberspacher pumps dry air. I have an outboard and an eberspacher. I am getting a solar panel to cope with the energy needs.

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[alec]

Good point about the carbon monoxide steve. I did read about a family of four dying due to plugging all the gaps and putting the gas burners on. A baby was up for’ard and survived due to the anchor chain pipe.

I notice in Argos that they do a Carbon Monoxide Alarm costing UK Pounds 25. I think I’ll get one.

Following a thread in PBO a few week’s ago, I went for the UK one pound terracotta flowerpot. My small cabin was like a sauna in about 30 minutes. An additional benefit was that the diesel started in no time due to the warm air.

I would advise using a low heat as mine now has a crack in it.


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[Gordonmc]

If someone could come up with a dry heat in a small unit that doesn't need great amounts of leccy, I would buy shares!
In the meantime we have to put up with what's available and they nearly all have drawbacks. I go for the improved sleeping bag solution for a small boat. Getting up into a cold cabin is preferable to getting up in a dripping wet but warm one.
The flower pot idea is good, but they tend to fall to bits after a while. There is a small portable gas fire that uses disposable propane canisters. They are effective but ventilation is essential, as in the case of using the gas hob.
Eventually it comes back to the solid fuel heater for long periods without shore power or huge battery recharging.
Not a realistic solution for a small boat, but for those with a bit of space the thread on the Classic Boat forum started by Whiskerstay might be of interest.

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[jimi]

in our camping days (note the "ing" .. vey important!) we used a catalytic heater to heat the tent, just screwed into the top of a camping gaz bottle and chucked out loads of radiant heat. As I understand it, because there's no flame, there's not a lot of CO or water vapour generated, perhaps a more scientific person could comment?

<hr width=100% size=1>O wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!

 

[bedouin]

The solar panel is a great idea, provided that you only use the heater when the sun is shining I doubt whether a solar panel is much use for charging a battery during a British Winter.

Clearly burning hydrocarbons does add moisture to the atmosphere, but then so does breathing, in my experience the amount of moisture generated by a heater is less than that generated by one person.

With the eberspacher you either have to draw the air intake from outside, in which case you get a lot of dry air but waste a lot of heat with all the warm air from the cabin escaping to the outside, or you recycle a proportion of the air from the cabin, in which case the efficiency is improved, but the drying effect is reduced.

The stove/light idea also has the benefit that they provide radiant heat rather than convected, which is usually regarded as being more efficient and more comfortable. Clearly they don't compare with an eberspacher for full 4 seasons work, but they should be fine for the occasional use when away from shore power.



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[bedouin]

The amount of water generated is independent of whether it has a flame or not, and catalytic heaters can also produce CO, though I don't know if they are more or less prone to it than other forms of gas heating.


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