Headsails

[Lady Campanula]

I'm refurbing.

Existing headsails - 4 - are quite reasonable 'hanked on' types. They need new pressed s/s hank eyelets by Rutgerson. I'm fitting an inner forestay for a small heavy weather staysail.

I've been given a Plastimo furling gear, which I could retrofit, and would need a new furling genoa,

Question is, which way to go?

Thots?

 

[Pete7]

Why can't you have both? Furling with one converted sail plus an extra dyneema halyard held at the mast ready to deploy when you want to use the hank on sails.

Pete

 

[[2574]]

Another option is what I've adopted which is two furling headsails which together cover the spectrum of sail size needed. I've a 150% genoa for summer sailing and then a 100% jib for winter sailing. I found that when the 150% genoa was furled significantly down for strong winds that it was nowhere near as efficient as the 100% jib hence the two sail plan which seems to work well. In lighter breeze I need the 150% to keep us moving along well. I occasionally swap sails during a summer season but generally it seems jib for winter six months and genoa for summer.

 

[Skylark]

My previous boat had hanked-on headsails. Added roller reefing. The No 2 genny was in good condition so I had the luff altered to suit.

As Pete as suggested, I've also kept the smallest jib, fairly heavy material, for use with a spare hayard, if required. Only tried it once but it works reasonably well as a heavish weather sail on my current boat.

 

[Seajet]

Lady Campanula,

I'd say it very much depends on size of boat & headsails.

On my 7/8ths rig 22' boat, the headsails are small enough to easily stroll up and change, but on the masthead 30' I had, the headsails were relatively huge & heavy, and I'd have given a lot ( if I'd had it ) for a good roller system.

If one knows a few tricks, the 'tactical' advantages of a ready sail on a roller begin to diminish, while hanked on sails will almost always give a better shape and better pointing ability; also redundancy in case of sail damage.

Then there is the chance of a roller set-up misbehaving, I've been on boats with a full sail stuck out in very strong conditions, with the roller jammed.

In heavy weather, a roller is just a liability, even if one has a good separate storm jib set-up there is the hassle & possibly danger of getting the big genoa off, which may well be necessary.

One of those times with a stuck full sail was with a Plastimo roller, which frankly I would never have, my Dad fitted that on his Centaur and after probably setting a few class records with full genoa ( apart from 1-2 rolls ) stuck out in a gale he had to make his own modifications.

 

[Lady Campanula]

This is all interesting, thanks.

Having been sailing on 'all sorts' for 40-odd years, I do have some perspectives. However, I'm always intrigued by understanding others' preferences/prejudices for the many different ways we choose to do things on boats.

I'll be probing other aspects, no doubt, from time to time. For much the same reasons....

 

[mjcoon]

Why can't you have both? Furling with one converted sail plus an extra dyneema halyard held at the mast ready to deploy when you want to use the hank on sails.

But what do the hanks hank onto? I could understand a jib with no hanks, set loose (like a chute?), but if the forestay is inside a foil which is inside a rolled-up genoa, with sheets still attached...

Mike.

 

[Lady Campanula]

No. The choice at the front is between a bare forestay with existing hanked-on sails, and my fitting a second-hand foil on that forestay with a new/reworked furling genoa.

There will be a removable inner forestay specifically for a heavy airs 'blade' staysail. That may be in 1X19 wire, or perhaps in Dyneema or similar.

There will also be a halyard - Dyneema or similar - for an excellent-condition existing conventional spinni and/or an assymetric.

I'm considering the options, the 'pros' and 'contras'....

 

[johnalison]

I think that the answer depends on what kind of sailing you do. There is no reason why a headsail on a foil shouldn't set as well as with hanks and as far as I can see, the only advantage of hanks is that you can drop a sail and hoist another above while leaving the dropped sail tied down. With a double foil you can hoist a second sail before lowering the other but this is rather a cumbersome process for cruisers.

If sail changes are only occasionally done you may as well keep the hanks but I don't know anyone who has cruised with a furler who has wanted to return to the joys of bouncing up and down on the foredeck. Some years ago I used to cruise in company with a faster boat with hanked jibs and the result was that we either kept up with them or went faster because we always had the right foresail area deployed. A well-cut genoa or jib with a foam luff may not quite give the last ounce of performance but comes pretty close. A laminate cloth also makes a big difference and should repay its extra cost.

 

[Seajet]

Johnalison,

'There is no reason why a headsail on a foil shouldn't set as well as with hanks', well that's correct if a racing type headfoil but just plain wrong if referring to a rolled sail on a roller reefing set-up, even with foam luffs etc.

I do know someone who ditched his bothersome roller and went to hanks, he's an experienced sailor ( and has an engineers eye to observe the problems a roller gave him ); he lives next door to me.

I have plenty of experience with various boats, with hanks & rollers; as I stated with larger sails I'd use a roller, but only if it's a very good one; if not give me hanks every time.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

I will be changing out to hanked foresails (in a couple of seasons time) for no other reason than I like foredeck work as part of my cruising experience. I like the convenience of hanks for sail handling individual headsails over a luff rope when short handed. I do have a yacht with a large foredeck and this opinion would likely be different on a much smaller yacht.

When changing foil headsails on a single luff groove foil it is just as simple as with hanked sails. The next sail is prepared on the fore deck with a sail tie bunching up the luff and the head ready to be inserted. The old sail is dropped and the luff bunched up under arms or a body as it is gathered from the foil. Its then tied around a preprepared sail tie on the push pit. The new headsail's head is fed into the foil, tension taken on the halyard, the sail tie slipped and sail hoisted up while being guided into the pre feeder.

I sailed a GK29 with twin forestays, pain in the butt when windy as the hanks got caught on one of the forestays requiring much swearing and pulling to get down.

 

[Salty John]

I'd keep the hanked on sails because I like to keep things simple. I don't mind working the boat from the deck rather than trying to do everything from the cockpit.
Rollerfurling is fine in moderate conditions but just when you don't want to go forward you have to, to set up your inner forestay or fit your storm jib around the furled headsail or whatever it is you need to do to end up with a small sail that sets well. I bet most people never use such systems, they just roll up the headsail, reef the main and start the engine. And most people never get into storm jib conditions anyway.
Changing down from a hanked on working jib to a storm jib is a simple task, especially if you're used to handling your head sails on the foredeck.
But I do realise that many people don't like to leave the cockpit so roller furling is the only option for them.

 

[fishermantwo]

I went from a yacht with a selection of hanked on headsails to a yacht with a furler and a large selection of headsails. It all depends on what size your yacht needs on a normal sailing day. My normal furling sail is about 120% and is excellent. The problem people have is when they use 150% and try to sail them with a few rolls.

 

[stav]

Previously Nic36 with No2 sized (130%)ish foam paded sail. Detactable innerstay, proabbly a solent stay as it only just cleared the roller drum. I set a light weight No1 from this, No3 blade and storm jib. originally the blade fitted the roller but what a pain taking down and then having to hoist. Also there is a big adavntage to piston hanks when lowering as they keep the sail gathered. I torn the luff out of the blade twice trying to hoist it single handed in 30kntsish.

On the Conway have not fitted a roller as with the limited budget did other things, so next summer will tell, but also hope the ketch rig will provide otherways of reefing and balancing the sailplan.

So many variables to this I really think it is each to his own. Should also say I like working out of the cockpit and feel this is easier with the family on board (plus as they get older and I get older they can have something to do)!

 

[onesea]

I Agree with who ever it was that said it depends on your sailing.
How often do you need to change your head sail when sailing?
How fast do you want to sail upwind?
Do you want/need the storage space below?

Presently I have roller furling, the boat came with it.

If your fitting second hand make sure you get all the leads right keep friction down etc or it can easily jam, properly set up they can go smoothly for years.

The main disadvantage with roller furling as far as I am concerned is the reefed sail set, even with a foam strip. There is in my mind a significant loss of efficiency just when I want it least up wind in a bit of a blow.

Given the space below I am not certain I would stick with it... Then I do not sail of a night that often...