Heads water tap

[ShipsWoofy]

I am in the process of renewing my heads, rebuilding is a better word actually.

Currently we have a Whale V pump tap as below.

I would like to keep the manual tap in case of electrical problems etc. But would also like to fit a simple in-line water pump with a switch (not pressurised).

Does anyone know if I can run through this tap, using it like a normal caravan type tap with the option to pump should there be a fail. Or should I consider a Y joint and have two separate taps. I do know you can pump water through a simple in-line pump as our galley tap will run if I over fill the tank on that side.

Unfortunately the tap is on the boat and I am looking to put an order in today.

Any thoughts please?

 

[steve28]

the same maufacturer makes an in line pump which you can install in the line and connect to a suitable switch, this should work and give you the ability for electric and manual.

the pumps are about 30 pounds ish i think

 

[Bodach na mara]

The arrangement you propose was what was on my boat when I got it. The electric pump was a small vane type, probably more suited for a windscreen washer and pumped s-l-o-w-l-y. The manual pump would not work at all due to the resistance in sucking the water through the electric pump.

I changed the whole arrangement to a pressure system when I installed hot water.

 

[Boathook]

Whale produce an inline pump for £30 which as steve28 says should be adequate. The electric just turns the pump on and off. My galley has similar though I have a whale double action foot pump with the whale inline electric pump very near the tank.

 

[Ships_Cat]

As I think has been said you can usually pump water through the hand pumps that use a ball or similar at the bottom of the pumping cylinder as non return, using an electrical pump (you can easily check I would think by just blowing in the bottom of the hand pump to test). But you cannot then suck through the electric pump using the hand pump (unless, perhaps, the other pump is a centrifugal). Obviously this can be got around by putting a bypass around the pump for use if the pump is inoperable.

But what we did is for the case of electric pump failure (we carry a spare pump too though) that we just have one foot pump and is valved back at the tank so that either the electrical pump pumps the water or the foot valve does (I cannot remember how the valving is arranged but is just one 3 port valve with a single suction from the tanks and as best I can remember is arranged so that the foot pump is not pressurised by the electric pump). So both pumps supply all taps (galley and bathroom) which means as our foot pump is in the galley and water was wanted in the bathroom you have to have someone (or go and do it oneself) operate the foot pump in the galley while the tap is open in the bathroom.

In the event, we have never had to use the foot pump - although the electric pump had a bearing problem once, it kept pumping and was only out of commission while I replaced the bearing at a convenient time.

If you wanted to consider that way, email me any time or PM me by end of your Friday night to let me know and I can email you the arrangement from the boat while we are away.

John

 

[snowleopard]

yes, the two valves in the pump are both one-way in the direction you want. however, when you push water through it under pressure (a) the plunger will shoot up to the top of its stroke and (b) you may get leakage around the shaft seal.

 

[tugboat]

Only just seen your post so a bit late if you wanted to order today. I agree with the other posters that you won't be able to draw through the electric pump with the manual pump you show in the picture. I have the same tap in line with a foot pump recessed into the sole (think it's called a Tiptoe). I can use either hand or foot pump but when using the foot jobbie the plunger on the tap rises. Eerie! I can recommend the Tiptoe if only for the reason that when it is not in use, you can press it down and twist with your foot so the plunger stays down flush with the sole. You need to have sufficient clearance under the sole for the pump. If you wish I could check dimensions for you.

 

[ShipsWoofy]

Thank you all for the advice so far.

I can not use the foot pump described, looked at it yesterday and it suggested 6" clearance under the heads floor, I have maybe 2". The other type of foot pump that you fit in the sink lock to just have a pedal showing is not really suitable with the way I am planning to build the heads unit.

I did wonder if the plunger would rise hence why I asked. I have two separate water systems to the galley and heads. The galley has no manual override so I think it important I build something into the heads system.

Here is a thought, maybe it is what I have been told already on here, just to clarify, if I bought two Y splitters and ran a short pipe around the pump, no valves, the pump should still work and the tap would have a bypass around the pump, yes/no? Would that affect the self priming of the pump? I could fit a one way valve into the bypass.

Though, the pump will be downhill of the flexi tank, so gravity should prime it.

Sorry for thinking aloud, I think a simple unrestricted bypass should work?

 

[tugboat]

When you run the electric pump it would just circulate round the bypass and you'd probably get nothing up the line to the tap?
Don't know if you could get a non-return valve to put in the bypass - that would work.

 

[Ships_Cat]

If the size of the foot pump is a problem and you only intend using it in the case of an electrical type failure, then you can get small diaphragm ones around 100mm dia and 40-50mm high. Typically they have a soft rubber top which you just tread up and down on with your foot and are robust enough to bury on the sole inside a locker door with junk piled on top of them. I don't know where you would find one in UK though.

Alternatively, if you want one out in the open but which is unobtrusive, have you had a look at the Whale Model 39173 foot pump which locks down flush with the sole when not used? However, I cannot speak from experience using them.

John

 

[misterg]

Electric pump will work OK as a "by-pass", because the valves in the tap pump will make sure water doesn't flow 'backwards' - However, tap may well just pump water back through the pump (depends on type of pump).

Whale do submersible & in-line pumps from about £12 in caravan shops - I added their cheapest one in line with a pump-tap in a camper van, and it worked fine - the pump in the tap will shoot up if left alone (as mantioned by others), but I just used to put an elastic band under the spout and over the top to keep it down. No hardship at all compared to the ability to rinse both hands at the same time /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Andy

 

[Ships_Cat]

For foot pump the rubber topped ones I referred to are similar to the Whale Baby Foot Pump Self-priming galley pump. There is a picture of one on West Marines site under plumbing and galley pumps and no doubt on Whales as well.

The inline electrical pumps are generally quite good but I have had problems with them (were not Whales though, which I could not comment on), I think because they are not very robust. On our own boat we went through about 6 of them for pumping refrig condensor water (each replaced under warranty) before replacing it with a little Johnson centrifugal which while more expensive was much more robust.

John

 

[ShipsWoofy]

Not surprising John, they from looking today are all seemingly rated for around 15 - 20 minutes continual running, if your used it on the fridge it really would have worked hard.

The galley electric pump is inline and is now around 17 years old, so not a bad lifespan so far.


I just killed it didn't I.

 

[Ships_Cat]

Yes I think the long running thing is a problem with them - ours would run for an hour or so at a time once or twice a day so was not running contiuously (freezer is a holding plate type), but I think they are not even robust enough for that. Ok for freshwater pump in a boat just used for day/weekend sailing perhaps or a caravan but if one spends time away on the boat one wants a reliable pump in my opinion.

What happened a couple of times was that the pump would die and the boatbuilder's systems guy and I would pull it out and test it uninstalled, and it still would not run. Then pack it up and send it back to the supplier and by the time it got there it would be working again /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif - they always replaced it though.

Supplier insisted the pump would be ok for the run times and I have seen them so used (the Nile Congo, for example, is claimed to be rated for continuous run) but is a question mark. As said before, I have no experience with the Whale one which another has reported as being ok in his case, and am not knocking that pump at all.

John