Headliner falling

[davidhand]

I have an 85 Beneteau. The headliner is a felt type material with a thin layer of an expanded foam which is (was) glued to the fiberglass. The problem is the foam has disintegrated with age and has fallen away from the fiberglass. Has anyone else had this problem, and if so how did you fix it.

 

[ShipsWoofy]

[ QUOTE ]
Has anyone else had this problem

[/ QUOTE ]

You should delete this question or it might swamp any useful answers.

Yes everyone who has foam backed vinyl or in your case felt.

How much are you talking about? Are you hoping to repair an area or replace the whole lot? It is hard work, but worth it after.

Do you have to have foam backed material, by replacing it type for type you will end up with the same problems in the future. Maybe you could consider replacing with something else, carpet is favoured by many..

 

[VicS]

[ QUOTE ]
how did you fix it.

[/ QUOTE ] Basically you can't. Replace it with the material of your choice. Same again, foam backed vinyl, polypropylene carpet lining,(beautiful but expensive) or cheap carpet from your local budget carpet shop.

You will almost certainly be using a solvent (toluene) based adhesive. Remember the fumes are deadly in a confined space so ensure good forced ventillation AND wear an "Organic vapours" mask.

The topic appears regularly so search this forum for loads of info.

 

[Richard10002]

On Rogue, the headlinings seem to be some kind of vinyl, but it is wrapped around a thin sheet of marine ply, (I think). In some areas the sheets are merely velcro'd to what seems to be more ply, (or is it balsa), under the deck. The velcro in some areas is reaching the end of its' stickable life, so some panels are coming away. In other areas it is screwed and velcro'd, but where there is a long space between screws, it is beginning to sag.

All I seem to have to do is put a few screws the panels with no screws, or a few more screws in those with not enough. (Unless someone is going to tell me that it is not that simple... I'm pretty sure I'm not in danger of going right through the GRP)

If your headlinings are merely stuck to the underside of the deck, you may be able to replicate the "Moody" way of doing things, which would result in replaceable panels, screwed rather than stuck.

That's my rather naieve take on the situation.

 

[VicS]

You could re-stick, or replace, the velcro using an impact adhesive.

If using Velcro for the first time sticking two strips on the panel and two strips on the deck at right angle to the first two (so that when put together they make an octothorpe or hash symbol) eliminates the need to accurately position them.

If headlining is stuck to ply panels you can use a water resistant PVA wood glue. that eleiminates the hazards associated with the use of solvent based adhesives. the absence of the solvent may also extend the life of foam backings a little.

 

[ems]

We have used varnished battens screwed into the deck head to overcome the problem. Saves messing about with glue and looks good as well.

 

[marilynch]

I will be doing this job very shortly, (she will be a snapdragon 747 when I eventually get her next week)
Like yours, the head lining Foam backing has disintegrated (no eveidence of felt as yet), and as i need to re wire and mount blocks to run lines back to cockpit to spread the load, I have to attach a pad under block where i fix it to the coach roof.
Once removed (yuk, forensic suit and bath hat awaits) I will make thin ply templates which I will cover in head lining.
I will then fibreglass wooden battens on to (inside) the coachroof, finally using poppers to fix panels to battens on roof, nice and snug, easy for electrical maintenance and the small gap should help keep a condensation minimal (a Little bit).

 

[Talbot]

posted this several times before, but it is a problem that continually re-appears.
I investigated this at length. The same material that was used originally is still available, but the foam is now fire retardent and is not expected to last more than 10 years. Many lining specialists advocate replacing the lining in squares (approx. 2' square) which are individually secured to the ceiling. The main advantage is that if you need to resecure anything on the deck above (e.g. winches, genoa track etc) then it is easy. The main disadvantage with this method is that it lowers the ceiling, andin my boat, this is already slightly too low for me (6'2"). I was unwilling to use the vinyl/foam product because of the cost/expected replacement period. I then thought about using carpet. The foam carpet would probably suffer from the same problem as the existing headlining, however, there is a new (relatively) carpet which is felt backed. I thought this might be suitable and it is also pretty cheap for a lightweight carpet. I then looked at glue. A specialist warned me that most glues used by the lining companies are fine in this climate, but would start to melt if the boat was taken further south. They recommended that the best glue would be that used in the car trade. I then managed to twist the arm of my friendly carpet fitter and his mate to agree to do it. I decided to remove the old lining and the residual glue myself - this is a very messy job, best done with the inside of the boat totally cleared of everything else. I really recommend the dyson for this task! I then (with a lot of help from my son!!) removed the old glue back to clean fibreglass. You can get a flap wheel designed for this from the headlining people, but I used a brass cup wire brush mounted in a small angle grinder - but it must be brass, and the grinder should be running at a slower speed than single speed grinders can otherwise it is very easy to grind down the fibreglass - word of caution wear full overalls and dust mask/glasses. You are then ready to let the fitters do their thing, again it is easier if you remove the windows completely - it also lets you reseal them again afterwards! For me with a cat, to make the task possible, the main saloon headlining needed to be done in four sections, with a piece of wood used to cover the joins (fore and aft). I made the task much simpler by taking the old headlining out carefully and using that as a template for the cuts Apart from the minor problem of the car glue being so strong that it softened the bond between the felt and the carpet itself, this job went very well. The cost of the carpet was less than the glue and about the same as that charged for the fitting. I also purchased new screws for the windows of the next size up to make certain that I had a good fixing - this entailed some small amount of drilling, and a lot of screw cutting as I could not get the right length at the time. The end result is excellent and at a major saving over that quoted by headlining specialists. It is a better insulator, looks better, and should last for a very long time.

 

[Ruffles]

Just a thought.

Head lining material appears to be available both with and without the foam backing. If you're just covering plywood panels then you may be able to get by without the foam which would last a lot longer. You would have to prepare the wood carefully because any irregularity would show through.

 

[marilynch]

Thanks, I will have a good think about that, I havn,t worked out exactly how I am going to do it yet, that is, until I get all old stuff off and checked the roof e.t.c. blah blah.

 

[jerryat]

[ QUOTE ]
The same material that was used originally is still available, but the foam is now fire retardent and is not expected to last more than 10 years.


[/ QUOTE ]

And as I have posted before, this is absolute rubbish! I suggest you check with a company who knows all about this material (e.g. Hawke House) who will confirm, as they did to me in writing, that the current foam-backed headlining material has a lifespan of 15-20 years.

 

[stephenmartin]

I recently re-headlined the inside of my boat which the previous owner had also done with ply wood and gloss painted the lot....since the initial hardwork of replacing the plywood had already been done by the previous numpty all the new numpty had to do was cover the hideous gloss with headlining...

I bought the stuff from a car refurbisher in london....25 mtr roll cost about £120 and does go quite a long way.....they try to cherge you for cutting but most times it is cheaper to buy the whole roll....the boat took 2.5 complete rolls everywhere was covered and stuck down well with 3 x 5 ltr tins of impact adhesive....most of the work was done in the summer months....

You would not believe how overpowering the smell of confined bostick is....it makes you very dizzy...even with the doors windows and escape hatches open...the gas alarm kept going off...but the results were well worth the effort..heaven knows why kids want to sniff the stuff....its truly horrible....holes inserts cut for windows made nice place mats for eating from

Car stuff is a lot cheaper than marine stores...as we all know most chandleries like to releive you of large amouts of wonga for stuff you can buy cheaper elsewhere....shop around

 

[VicS]

[ QUOTE ]
You would not believe how overpowering the smell of confined bostick is....it makes you very dizzy...even with the doors windows and escape hatches open...the gas alarm kept going off...but the results were well worth the effort..heaven knows why kids want to sniff the stuff....its truly horrible

[/ QUOTE ]

But were the results worth the possible long term damage you may have done to your internal organs? You have exposed yourself to dangerously high levels of the solvent vapour (toluene).

It is important to use an "Organic Vapours" mask when solvent based adhesives in confined spaces in conjunction with good ventillation. Neither on their own is good enough but if used together you cannot even smell the toluene.

The suppliers of the adhesive should be able to supply the masks if they are worth a toss. Hawke House certainly can but that is not much help to someone in San Francisco. Mine was made by 3M so I guess it should be available world wide.

 

[marilynch]

It is a worry, to do it as safe as possible , I suppose less of a problem if , possibly repairing a small area like David may be doing, but, 'I' don't want to kill off too many brain cells, I have enough 'Brunette moments' as it is, Maybe I should dust off my Blue Peter badge and use double sided stiky tape and a washing up liquid bottle..? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
I will read up some more , of course, but in the mean time, does any one know of a less dangerous alternative?

 

[Talbot]

I removed all the windows before attempting this, and that kept the fumes down to reasonable levels, but a good fume mask is a good idea, getting someone else to doi t is even better /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[marilynch]

Yes, a cunning plan unfolds of beer bribes as we speak! /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

I shall definately investigate further using PVA for foam backed lining onto ply,as suggested by Vic.

Will I be able to seal the ply with PVA as well, instead of using epoxy?

N.B Please be quick with your replies before David (the original poster)gets back after hes finished his cornflakes in sanfransisco and wants his 'Post' back.. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif he he)

 

[rhumlady]

What ever you do, don't try to just stick it back with contact adhesive as it won't work for very long.

 

[baltic]

yes we had this problem we striped the lot off and replaced it with a grey cord not to expencive but worth it in the end

 

[Sea Devil]

of all the jobs I have ever done on a boat re-newing the headlining was probably the most horrid.. If it is a foam backed direct onto the GRP it takes much time energy and money to replace...... And actually once it starts to 'droop' there is no option other than to pull it all down and replace it..

You will get lots of info and there are several threads about this awful process.

1) pull down all the head lining but keep it safe and mark it up so you know where it came from - it will be the template for the new covering. Take off all the wood trim which covers the joints in the material.

2) Take an angle grinder with purpose pads on it and grind off all the old adhesive.. wear mask, goggles and protective clothing. the entire boat will be covered in a layer of dust.

3) purchase at vast expense the correct adhesive, new headlining or carpet or what ever and cut it out to fit using the old pieces as a template.

4) Spread very expensive adhesive over both surfaces and offer up the new headlineing. You have one chance to get it right as the adhesive is 'instant' contact. Not only is it expensive, very sticky and messy but gives off an odour which will give you one hell of a high...

5) clean up all the wood trim - sand it down and replace it. Then fill all the screw holes then re-varnish the lot.

After repeating the above process until all the boat is recovered you will have a boat with a new head lining that cost an arm and a leg and has not improved the boat one iota but had to be done cos the old lining was falling down and spraying old foam everywhere.

OK maybe I have exaggerated - it is vastly worse than I have indicated and more expensive than you can imagine!!

Michael