He calls water

[walker]

The 'I call water' thread prompts me to seek advice about an incident maybe 300 metres shy of the finish line on Saturday. Apart from RTIR 2 years ago when there was so little wind that there was at least half an hour to mull any action, this was my only experience of 'racing' conditions and even the skipper is a once a year man.

Anyway, we had to put in a tack to make the line and found ourselves on starboard heading for shore at about 7.5 Kts across the path of 7 or 8 (much bigger - gulp) boats charging for the line on port. In rapid succession they all bore away until the last boat screamed 'water'. I had more pressing fears than timing, or looking at the depth, but I reckon he called for 'Water' between 5 and 10 seconds before he would have t-boned us. We were in the process of preparing to tack anyway but stood on more through inertia than design and he had to bear away a bit sharpish to avoid a collision. From his reaction I think it is fair to assume he didn't entirely approve of our action.

I was not skipper and don't really know what we could, or even, in the time available, should have done. But I'd like to know next time!

Cheers

Mark

(If it was you who was unhappy and we were wrong - sorry!)

 

[dom]

You did nothing wrong at all. If you had tacked infront of one of them you might well have inadvertently put yourself in the wrong. It can be annoying for faster boats when this happens but apart from the last boat everyone seems to have done the right thing.

 

[Moonshining]

It's funny how it's always the boat at the back who makes a fuss, innit?

 

[Judders]

We were in a similiar position on saturday, it might have upset people but we didn't choose their course for them, they could have done exactly the same if they had wished.

[ QUOTE ]
You did nothing wrong at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree, bearing away does not constitue standing on, although if it avoided the collision.

 

[flaming]

From what you've said I don't think he was calling for water on an obstruction, on Port he would have heading into deeper water right? I think he was asking you not to tack in his water. If he would have hit you 5-10 seconds after then it is entirely possible that you tacking would have been in his water.
Remember you have to keep clear from the moment that you pass head to wind until you are down to close hauled. If the other boat had to start avoiding you during this time then you infinged.

 

[bbg]

If you were on opposite tacks, he is not entitled to call for room to tack, or "water". It only applies to boats on the same tack.

The correct thing to do was stand on, yell "starboard", and then if he continued on a collision course, do everything you could to avoid the collision. And if you had to alter course at all (or if a collision occured), protest him immediately.

 

[DJE]

He might have been hailing the boat on Port immediately to his leeward. That boat has to bear away round your stern and leave sufficient room for any overlapped boats to clear your stern as well.

 

[dom]

You are of course right bearing away or indeed tacking in his path would be totally wrong. But my understanding is that he simply stood on which would seem to me to be the correct course of action.

 

[Twister_Ken]

" I think he was asking you not to tack in his water."

Don't think he has the right to do this. Called a slam dunk (tacking on top of somebody) it is (or used to be) a perfectly legit thing to do. Pointless tho' unless the guy you're tacking onto is in your class.

 

[walker]

We did indeed stand on - and it was very clear from the shaking fist - seriuously - that it was us he was annoyed with. We did call starboard as well, though our calls may have become a bit shrill as the situation developed - even the boats that seemingly 'did the right thing' left it so late that they had to do whatever the sailing equivalent of a handbrake turn is.

 

[Twister_Ken]

"even the boats that seemingly 'did the right thing' left it so late that they had to do whatever the sailing equivalent of a handbrake turn is"

A port tacker will always shave your transom by a few inches. Any more and they're giving away ground to windward.

 

[fireball]

It's a port - starboard call - no calls for water are needed - the fact that he managed to bear away and go under your stern shows you that he had all the "Water" he needed....

Perhaps what is needed is some A3 flashcards with the rule numbers written on them - flash them at any bugger that calls at you ... then see what their reaction is ... most of them don't know the rules numbers anyway so will probably avoid the collision in the confusion!!

 

[flaming]

[ QUOTE ]
" I think he was asking you not to tack in his water."

Don't think he has the right to do this. Called a slam dunk (tacking on top of somebody) it is (or used to be) a perfectly legit thing to do. Pointless tho' unless the guy you're tacking onto is in your class.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely not.

"13 WHILE TACKING
After a boat passes head to wind, she shall keep clear of other boats until she is on a close-hauled course. During that time rules 10, 11 and 12 do not apply."

Big difference between tacking on top of someone and tacking right in front. If the other boat has to start avoiding you after you pass head to wind and before you are down to close hauled you fouled, simple as.
So as the original poster had said they were preparing for a tack as they were crossing the port tackers I suggest that this is a posibility perhaps?
Certainly if I see a boat prepping for a tack right in front of me I will always shout "don't tack in my water".
And given the fact that the original poster said they avoided the other boat largely by inertia I took that to mean they had perhaps started the tack?

 

[Jamesuk]

I was disappointed with a starboard call that if he had tacked before anyway he would have crossed the line sooner but he still had to get one last starboard call in - although i was close to shouting water.

What are you allowed to call water on (depth wise)

 

[Danny Jo]

I can remember a similar situation from years ago, and still feel embarrassed about it. As a youth I spent summer hols crewing on a Solent Sunbeam (V17, Comedy). The skipper is no longer with us, and so is unable to refute my scurrilous suggestion that she was notorious for her ignorance of the rules. She was also famous for her knowledge of the tides and channels in Chichester harbour, and often finished in a respectable position.

One of my jobs was to dip a bamboo cane over the lee gunwhale to feel for the bottom. When I called a depth that left us barely inches to spare, she would look over her shoulder, bellow "WATER" and put in a tack. On the occasion in question, however, she neglected to call for water before going about onto a port, offshore tack. Faced with several boats charging up on starboard, she yelled (like the skipper who is the villain of this thread) "WATER". Knowing my skipper's strength of mind (nurtured by a childhood spent sailing in the Scillies), the stand-on vessels gave way and busied themselves raising protest flags.

The overwhelming consensus among the other participants is that you cannot call for water on an offshore tack - you have to go about first, then call for water.

 

[kengill]

It was probably his lazy crew he was yelling at who had not prepared his whisky to the correct dilution /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

 

[tross]

Hang on, 300 metres fom the ROI finish line, on a port tack and he was calling for water. If he wanted more water he would have to turn to starboard anyway as the shallow ground is to his port. I think he was trying it on.

 

[Twister_Ken]

One more thought on this...

Often when you're approaching a finish line it's not square to the wind. Therefore one tack will get you across the line more quickly than the other. Could it be that matey was aiming for the line on port tack, and you, on starboard, weren't? Therefore was he somewhat forcefully drawing your attention to the fact that if you tacked you'd finish more quickly and that at the same time you'd be doing him a favour?

 

[jimi]

I'd call "F#ck off and learn you basic rules!" either that "Rule 58 part 1 para 3 sub clause 4." Used to work for a short time when I laser sailed until my mates wised up;-)

 

[MikeBz]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd call "F#ck off and learn you basic rules!"

[/ QUOTE ]

You'd be somewhat hoist by your own petard there /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Mike