have you ever bought an ex-charter boat? How was it?

Looked at few when shopping for our current boat. Walked away from most, ran from the others. Got wise after a while and stopped wasting time going to see anything ex-charter.

That said, some here no doubt own good ex-charter vessels, so there will be exceptions.
 
dylanwinter said:
Lots of people say that they would be wary of buying one.

I was wondering if anyone on here had first hand experience of buying and running one.

How knacked are they?

D
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No.
Would I? Depends on the boat.
Having worked for a sailing school and chartered thier older boats. I would by one. Yes they have higher milage probably about 5 or 6 times as much per year. But they are checked routinly and kept maintained.
expect engine to be ok. a couple of thousand hours on a diesel not a big deal if its been regularly serviced by some one who knows what they are doing.
sails baggy. stove might need a new one. Would I by one of thier boats? if the price was right yes.

with any boat good survey, by me if small and cheep, using a pro if lots of cash.

In the end I am in the old cheep boat market. Well used worn out is likely to be the case chartered or not. some TLC required.

The boat I have now was previously lived on. engine and sails great. stove paritaly functional. water system disconected no longer functional. cusions well worn. slowly progressing with TLC. Although she was never chartered, the make was very popular back in the day with local charter companies and many were. I picked a make which had a reputation for standing up well to the charter trade. Also for being fammiliar with the type of boat.
 
Simondjuk said:
Looked at few when shopping for our current boat. Walked away from most, ran from the others. Got wise after a while and stopped wasting time going to see anything ex-charter......
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I have had similar experience and reacton. When noting that the vessels for sale looked very tired for their age the brokers then admit they are ex charter or sailing school.
 
I have bought two ex charter boats,one a Moody 346 which we kept for nine years in the Med , had stood up well to charter use although we spent money on new cabin sole and other stuff she was a great boat for us,sold her for more or less what we paid for her after nine years. Just bought a Dufour 38 from a very small family run charter company ,she had just had brand new sails last season ,boat was very very clean and although we have spent some money on her we consider she has been an excellent buy after our first season .The family run ex charter boat was streets ahead of Moody we bought regarding maintanance , some great buys out there but you really need to be in the right place and very careful .
 
Not all charter boats are the same. You treat them as any other purchase - look at the condition and price in relation to the value to you and make your decision. There is a big difference between a hard used sailing school/charter boat in UK waters and those used in warmer climates. To make them pay, many UK boats are intensively used, out in all weathers and thrashed by large and often inexperienced crews and only sold when they are no longer attractive to customers (or the operator goes bust).

Generally boats used by the big (and many small) operators in warm climates get a much easier life and are sold after 5 or 6 years. They tend to be better maintained as the operators know they have to find a buyer for them at that sort of age as the market for chartering prefers newer boats. Thousands of boats have been through the charter regime and ended up with private owners. Not much use to anyone wanting a boat in the UK but a viable route for somebody wanting to own a boat in the sun.

If you want to see a comparison, there are two Bavaria 37s ex charter on the market in the UK at the moment. One spent 7 seasons chartering in the Ionian and the other has been a sailing school and charter boat in northern England. Not difficult to see which is which.
 
I bought an ex charter / flotilla boat in Greece after spending a frustrating year looking for the right boat. I am very happy with it.
I bought from a major flotilla company and I found that this worked greatly to my advantage. I picked up the boat when they were dewinterising their fleet and they were happy to get their maintenance guys to address any minor niggles. I got lots of extras and bits and pieces as they treated my like one of their charter customers and did everything they could to make me happy. This may not be the same with all companies but it was certainly the case for me and the other guys in the marina who bought boats at the same time.
I also found that the condition of the boat was far better than the private boats of equivalent price that I had looked at. A boat left unattended for any period is far more likely to deteriorate than one which is used all the time. Also, a good charter company will ensure that a boat is winterised thoroughly every year and lifted out. This is a lottery with private boats.

Of course, I may have been lucky and not all charter boats will be so good. If you buy one, I would make sure that it had been chartered until the previous season. (I saw some crazily overpriced decayed old canibalised wrecks (Moodys) that Neilsen were trying to shift.)

I have sailed in company with a few of the guys who bought boats from the same charter company at the same time as me. All were very happy with their boats. Two of them have just sold their boats with about 30% profit.
 
We bought an ex-Sunsail boat for a very good but fair price then and expected it to be a project boat which it has been.

We bought it with over 50 issues that we spotted ourselves, had a full survey which added a couple more. Negotiated on the price, the maintenance guys fixed about 30 of them before purchase and we had a boat we could sail, dirty and with knackered fittings after 6 years of charter and 5 as flotilla lead boat. Pretty much everything had been cannibalised to maintain other flotilla boats, and the price reflected the knackered sails.

We've been very happy with it and I have taken a lot of pleasure (and frustration) learning about how all the boat's systems work and how to replace or reassamble them, whilst floating about in turquoise anchorages. The worst problem was the mast getting bent, but that was by another boat whilst we were parked in our home marina and we just motored for the second half of the season which was mostly (in the Med) what we would have had to do on many days anyway. Insurance gave us a new mast and better still, a complete new set of standing rigging.

So if you are practical and enjoy fixing things then it's a very affordable way to buy a bigger boat, and one day I will run out of things to do.
 
dylanwinter said:
Lots of people say that they would be wary of buying one.

I was wondering if anyone on here had first hand experience of buying and running one.

How knacked are they?

D
Click to expand...

Dylan, lots of sensible answers but......

There must be a motivation for this question. Are you selling up and buying a 40 foot Beneteau??!!
 
Simondjuk said:
That said, some here no doubt own good ex-charter vessels, so there will be exceptions.
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I think Ariam's pretty good :). She was chartered from 1998 to 2012. In fact, looking through some photos at my parents' house a while back, I discovered we had actually chartered her for a weekend when she was nearly new (and I was still at school)!

Condition when we bought her? Well, she was on her third engine - god knows what they'd been doing to them, but at least number 3 had been a recent replacement so actually a benefit to us. Upholstery was the most obvious issue - perfectly serviceable and reasonably clean, but very worn. That's now been replaced (by a guy who normally does bus seats, for a lot less than "marine" upholsterers :) ). EDIT: And the sails were knackered, but our offer allowed for that and we stripped them off immediately we owned her so I tend to forget about them.

The general impression is that big things (rig, engine) were serviced by the book, but small repairs were neglected because a charterer doesn't greatly care that there's a bit of water seeping into the bottom of a partition or that there's a slight whiff of holding-tank when you open the cockpit locker. Loads of the plain copper wiring was seriously corroded as well, but perhaps that's normal for 16 year old AWBs. (I've replaced all of it except parts of the lighting circuit, which are hard to get at, hopefully less badly affected being higher up, and lightly loaded now by LEDs.)

We had her painted because my dad insisted that white boats are boring, and she certainly looks far better in blue. But there wasn't anything wrong with the hull finish before.

Apart from the engine, sails, and upholstery, I don't think someone buying her in the state we did would assume chartering. She could easily have been a well-used private boat with an owner who wasn't very practical and hands-on.

Pete
 
roblpm said:
Dylan, lots of sensible answers but......

There must be a motivation for this question. Are you selling up and buying a 40 foot Beneteau??!!
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who knows what the future holds

although I doubt that it will ever be a 40 foot beneteau

could be another Centaur one day - once I have finished ducking under bridges and electricity cables

I think I have a way of buying one cheap with a duff engine and turning it into a reliable travelling machine

The Centaur has been great. It is a brilliant seaboat. It is much tougher than I am.

D
 
I bought an ex sailing school boat once, it looked awful but they had kept the rig in reasonable shape and patched the dings...and it was very, very cheap
 
I have owned and sold 3 charter boats.

They were all frequently used and well maintained. The last one I have taken out of charter and bought it for my own personal use.

Engine - Approx 3200hrs in 10yrs of use but oil & filter change by Yanmar before each winter lift out. Should go for 5000+ hrs say another 10yrs with reduced usage

Sails - original Jeanneau ones replaced after a couple of years with heavier Bainbridge fabric ones - I hope they will be OK for another 5yrs cruising.

Interior Upholstery - Could just re-cover but ideally needs replacing

Interior - Some edges need re-varnishing

Cabin Sole Boards - Could be re-varnished but ideally needs replacing

Hull - Some minor gelcoat repairs needed to get it perfect.

Through Hull Fittings/Valves - replaced this year as good safe practice as even HRs are not corrosion proof

I am aware of many people that have bought lightly used boat (and cars) and have had lots of problems as both boats and cars need to be regularly used and maintained.

Providing the purchase price reflects the cost of necessary work they can be as good a buy as any other IMHO

Ill informed opinion and prejudice make them more difficult to sell (similar to Skoda cars!)
 
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A friend of mine entered into one of the Sunsail deals where he bought a boat and they financed it through a share of the charter fees. When he got the boat after 5 years it was immaculate, fully serviced and a new set of sails.
 
MoodySabre said:
A friend of mine entered into one of the Sunsail deals where he bought a boat and they financed it through a share of the charter fees. When he got the boat after 5 years it was immaculate, fully serviced and a new set of sails.
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Out of curiosity if he were to start again would he repeat this experience or would he buy a boat through a different route?
 
I purchased mine in 2008, the boat was a charter boat for only one charter season. The boat was found by my surveyor in very good shape. Some needed small repairs took time but fixed at last by the seller. The price was fair but not very cheep.
Would I do it again? yes.
Could I find a better deal? Maybe,but life was found too short to look forever for the perfect deal/boat...
Beware of dock side experts that always know best what NOT to do....Do find a good reliable surveyor!
 
solar said:
I purchased mine in 2008, the boat was a charter boat for only one charter season. The boat was found by my surveyor in very good shape. Some needed small repairs took time but fixed at last by the seller. The price was fair but not very cheep.
Would I do it again? yes.
Could I find a better deal? Maybe,but life was found too short to look forever for the perfect deal/boat...
Beware of dock side experts that always know best what NOT to do....Do find a good reliable surveyor!
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well written

over the past few years of sailing around I have spent many more hours listening to people telling me what I should not do

at times these forums are no different.


Those who say don't will always outnumber those who say do

especially when it comes to getting on the water in any vessel that is less than immaculate

D
 
After I had read the title of this thread I thought 'don't fancy doing that' and then I realised that in a way it is what we have done. Storyline was once owned by a charitable trust that took scouts out sailing. She was bought from the trust by a group of trustees and at that time was re-engined and major osmosis work done on her hull. I think she was quite lightly used and the obvious signs are that she has been extensively cleaned (keep those scouts busy !) with many scratches in the gel coat in the cockpit and deck. The cabin sole is also a bit worn. Fortunately nobody had stripped back the original varnish/lacquer on the extensive sapele joinery down below and I have stripped this off with hot air gun and now it looks fabulous.

So there are many types of boat that have been used for commercial/charitable purposes and I reckon they have to be judged on a case by case basis. The relatively low price of Storyline has meant we can own a powerful 'go anywhere' boat with so much space down below she is like a second home.
 
Sailfree said:
Out of curiosity if he were to start again would he repeat this experience or would he buy a boat through a different route?
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Can't answer for that individual, but having bought my boat that way can offer general observations. As with any purchase, not all deals are the same so you need to look at what is on offer and how it fits in with your requirements. For example it used to be quite possible to just finance a charter boat, never use it and make a good return on your investment. However this is no longer possible, mainly because residual values are not what they were and charter rates have not increased at the same rate as the capital cost of boats (due mainly to competition).

So, most deals only make sense if you value the usage elements - ie so many "free" weeks a year, and you can commit 5+years ahead as getting out of deals is difficult. Then you have to consider what to do with the boat at the end. The ideal is to take it over and use it, so this is very suitable for people like myself getting a retirement boat. Alternatively trading up at the end of the contract can be suitable if you have an on going demand for the weeks. For example some people are able to sell some of their weeks, or share them with family members.

In my case the deal I got, financing my share through a second mortgage on my house broke even on 2 weeks high season chartering - that is the financing cost was less than the charter cost and I had 7 seasons of that. The capital cost of buying was around what I would net for the boat now. The big plus for me is that I could never have afforded (or justified) a new boat of that size without chartering it out. If I was starting again with the same objectives i would do the same. However, it is not for everybody.
 
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