Have Fairline REALLY dropped IPS?

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jrhartley

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Dear all

I have been away for a while (given up flyfishing now!) having sold my Jeanneau a few weeks back and enjoying being boatless (missed it really though!). I was at LIBS and had a great day looking at what was on offer. I for one prefer these quieter shows, the salesmen have more time for you and you get to know some interesting things.

I am very interested in buying a new Targa 44 with IPS but have since heard that Fairline have dropped IPS - is this true? I don't want to land myself with an old model bacause I wasn't told by the salesman!

Does anyone have any information on this or any other manuf. dropping IPS? I can't see why they would drop it, are there inherent problems with it?

Any help/advice greatly appreciated before I make a costly mistake! SWMBO would not be amused!

Thanks
JR
 
hello
I am sure they offered a more economic version, Open no hardtop GT choice and with sterndrives D4 300 or D6 370hp
They also changed the cockpit for the 44 Targa GT now and removed that small sunpad aft.
I don't know if they stopped IPS all togather but I guess you can give them a call or email them. But it is possible they did as you have sterndrive with joystick choice now.
 
thanks for your reply. I called another dealer (in the med) who told me that they were no longer producing IPS boats - do you think this will have a big impact on used prices of the old model? I was offered a great discount on an IPS boat now I know why.....
 
Article below is copied from a US on-line magazine, I haven't read it all but it seems that IPS has not been as problematic as some feared, and is now widely used. On the other hand it's always more difficult to sell a boat with an unusual engine/drive option for that boat, but if the deal is good?

"There are currently 120 boat builders worldwide that offer models powered by the IPS. Leading the charge is the US with forty-four builders, and not surprisingly, the Italians are second with twenty-four builders; the remainder are spread out over all corners of the world stretching from China to Brazil. In our testing over the years, there have only been two occasions when we were unable to perform a scheduled test on an IPS boat. One was due to an improper factory installation and the other was due to the boat striking an underwater obstruction in the Throgs Neck area of western Long Island Sound in New York City. In this instance, the damage was to the props.



The IPS system and components as installed: engine a POD package, EVC control boxes and helm control components.

At the heart of the IPS system is actually not a component, it is software, (a.k.a. black boxes) and for a marine application, that is a good thing. The IPS system relies on many components talking to each other to achieve the desired result, better vessel control via a joystick and this can only happen through computer control. Having a computer and software at the heart of pod drives means that upgrades and modifications are as simple as installing new software.

The team at Volvo Penta tells us that the IPS600 is now running version EVC-C3 and that they are continually working on advancements. A benefit to maintenance in this case is that the diagnostics and remedy to most issues can be as easy as hooking up a laptop, or more accurately, a PDA device and program Volvo calls VODIA.

ipspod_1.jpg


IPS pod component, upper unit and lower unit with cut-a-way showing the drive gear.

This system is more like the fly-by-wire flight controls of a modern fighter jet, utilizing electro-mechanical movement. The steering system atop the POD is connected to the help unit electrically, relaying the inputs from the helm to actuate the steering by turning the pod's lower unit. Some may think this is a complicated process with more possibilities to malfunction, but in our opinion, it actually simplifies the steering process by using less equipment, all of which is integrated into one system.

Item “A” is the driveshaft connection coming directly from the engine package. IPS can be installed with the engine connected directly to the pod gears or via a jackshaft to the pod gears, enabling the builder to install multiple IPS systems in an offset layout or the engines at a greater distance from the drives.

Item “B” is the raw water intake and exit point. The water is fed via the feeder tubs on the Upper unit directly to the engine cooling system. Item “C” is the integrated exhaust system which vents down through the body of the pod to exit aft of the propeller drive shaft in the lower unit.

ipspod_stbd.jpg


IPS pod unit looking from the starboard side, complete upper and lower unit.

The lower unit itself is manufactured from an alloy comprising nickel, bronze, and aluminum and is not painted. Any boater that has a painted drive can see the benefit in this. So far we have not seen that fouling due to marine growth is any more of less problematic than it is on than a standard inboard application. And referring to the maintenance manual, the first mention of corrosion only refers us to the inspection of the “space between IPS-Housing and clamping ring” during the 200 hour impaction.

completeips_pod.jpg


Complete IPS power package with pod unit attached.

Item “A” in this image shows the shut off valve on the raw cooling water intake. We have noticed in most applications there is also a shut off valve on the opposite side (not shown) for the cooling water return. Item “B” is showing the main housing which also contains the hydraulic reverse gear with electric shift. The entire upper unit of the IPS pod is manufactured mainly from aluminum. Item “C” shows the oil dipstick, which is very easy to get to in each of the models we have tested, but obviously that depends on the builder's installation.

Scheduled Maintenance

In looking at the maintenance schedule for the IPS system, we find nothing out of the ordinary, just checking filters and fluid levels. In fact, the 100-200 hour scheduled maintenance only lists two items, replacement of engine oil and oil filters / by-pass filters and an inspection of the primary fuel filter. To see a PDF of the maintenance schedule, download it here.

Since the IPS system is really the integration of many components and systems, all being controlled and monitored by the EVC (Electronic Vessel Control), the likelihood of major issues arising without a fair amount of advance warning is, in our opinion and experience, greatly reduced. And as for the fear that this is a new and complicated system that will only add to a boater’s maintenance issues and costs, again in our experience, it does not seem to be that way.

Forward-Facing Props

Perhaps the greatest concern of all among boaters when the IPS system was first introduced was the forward-facing propellers. Some people feared that they would be more susceptible to damage than aft-facing props and pods. Certainly many boaters have dinged and damaged their IPS props and Volvo Penta has even told us of cases in which the pods were torn off – but virtually all of these incidents were due to operator error and usually would have occurred as well with conventional inboard shafts and props. In fact, since the IPS pods usually draw slightly less water than do most inboard set-ups, it can be argued that IPS props are less prone to be damaged than conventional running gear.

You can compare the IPS 600 as we have tested it on six models ranging from 40 feet up to 58 feet. "
 
Last edited:
rubberduck
I think Absolute is the biggest beleiver of IPS, it is offered on all its models minus its entry level 40.
I think Fairline was not selling well the 44 Targa GT and decided to scrub hardtop now optional, and IPS, and redesign the cockpit. They also changed other things as the galley now gas, and no genertor as standard.
This made the starting price about 100k cheaper. My press release from September 2009 said the 44 Targa open version with D4s 300hp to start from 290.000 UK£.
Saying all this I am sure those who bought the 44 Targa GT in 2007 starting from about 400.000 UK£ will suffer huge depreciation as the buyer will go spot on comparing it with a new, but one really cannot blame Fairline in these difficult times.
Another thing to consider is that the bigger D6 370hp choice makes the Targa 44 faster to same speed to IPS600 but also more economic....

British builders are not using IPS much
Fairline has none now, Princess nothing, Sunseeker has 48 Portofino and 52 Predator, but should offer it on 54 Predator too. Sealine will be soon the biggest users of pods altough I think they hulls are more suited and tested on ZF Zeus then Volvo IPS. Today it offers it on the SC47, F46 and soon to come F42. Apparently this last will be offered with IPS600 only, which I am surprised considering Sealine is Brunswick, which had esclusive rights on Zeus back then...
 
Princess tried an IPS version of the V45 but I am lead to believe performance no better than the stern drives this coupled with the additional cost they did not pursue it.
 
I would go for the IPS system over outdrives. The control you get with an IPS boat is great. Not sure about these independently steering outdrives, if it uses the same steering ram system as the DPH drive then there would be 4 x steering rams to fail. Also the servicing cost of IPS drives is much less.
 
I was surprised Fairline didn't go for IPS on their new Squadron 42 and it did get me wondering whether they'd made some kind of policy decision on IPS. IMHO, IPS has not been the magic bullet it was sold as. First, IPS powered boats do seem to be more expensive than their shaftdrive/sterndrive equivalents. I'm not sure whether this is because Volvo charge more or the boat builders are being ambitious with their pricing. Second, IPS doesn't seem to be as economical in some installations as it is supposed to be. Certainly, sterndrives seem to have an economy advantage. Thirdly, IPS seems to give a more twitchy ride compared to shaftdrive so some builders have stopped considering it for flybridge boats.
Could be that Fairline have decided to use sterndrives on sportscruisers below 45ft and stick with shaftdrive for everything else?
 
Deleted User said:
Could be that Fairline have decided to use sterndrives on sportscruisers below 45ft and stick with shaftdrive for everything else?
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no official word in the matter but I think it is a big YES. Princess are the same too.
If we put the international perspective:
Ferretti Group are the same too, no IPS boat.
And Azimut Group have the 43S launched in 2006, and Atlantis 50x4 (2008) now also available with ZF Zeus Cats engines. Surprise the new Azimut 38F and 40S have no IPS or pods. But they experimented the new large ZF pods for the 62S and where very satisfied, should be out this year.
Another surprise for me was also Cranchi taking the MAN and shaft direction for its new SixtyFour, which is a hardtop boat. Cranchi have always been one of the big tester for Volvo engines and propulsion....
 
PYB, why do you think this is? Is it a cost thing or have IPS/Zeus caused unexpected issues?
 
Cost and demand for it.
The first is because both systems require a new hull design or a large modification (more so with IPS). That does cost (tank testing, computer simulations, and actual prototypes)
Big boat clients (50 feet +) a huge part 90% still prefare shaft to pods. I think if I did a survey my response would be 25% shafts but will consider IPS, 60% shafts only, and 5% IPS only, 10% undecided.
Surprisingly when Mike was here with M/Y Jenny Wren and we talked about IPS all of who where onboard five British boat owners all said they don't like it.
 
Boys, it's been half a decade!...

... since we debated IPS in this thread (among others).
At that time, I said "time will tell, I'd just let someone else be the guinea-pig".
And now, IPS is just another great bit of engineering with a brilliant future behind it.
 
Remember the comparison test MBY done between IPS and CMD Zeus, the Zeus came out as a far superior unit and every function was standard unlike the volvo, one of the reasons these pods were designed for was to bring down the build time of boats but I guess now they dont have so many to build then time is not so much an issue, as installing shafts/p brackets/rudders etc uses up farmore time than just bolting in a pod drive, this should help to minimise job loses aswell
 
Thanks for all your help guys, I have had some very useful info from PMs but am still undecided. EBY have a 2008 IPS boat for £349,950 but I am sure I could get it for nearer £300,000 so that makes me realise just how much some poor souls have lost in a short amount of time - when the 'new' boats hit the used market surely the IPS boats will fall further still? The main trouble is I WANT a Fairline (IMHO they are better than Princesses - don't mean to offend) but think I would rather spend the same or a smidge more on a current model than a model thats already shedding value BEFORE I buy it.
 
jrhartley said:
The main trouble is I WANT a Fairline (IMHO they are better than Princesses - don't mean to offend) but think I would rather spend the same or a smidge more on a current model than a model thats already shedding value BEFORE I buy it.
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If I were in the market for a 44' HT I wouldn't have a Fairline or a Princess, or anything British. I'd buy one of these. You can have it with sterndrives or for about an extra £50k (yes, £50k) the same D6's with IPS.
 
AdeOlly said:
You can have it with sterndrives or for about an extra £50k (yes, £50k) the same D6's with IPS.
Click to expand...
Funny how the video on the link you posted says it all, really.
Assuming that if the builder wants to show how the boat rides in a video, he's going to use the boat which performs better, before forking out an extra £50k I would wonder why they're showing the sterndrive version. Which indeed rides beautifully, btw.
I'd be curious to see the same boat with IPS steering at speed, as shown at around half of that video...
 
There is plenty to see in this size 40-45 feet hard top sports cruiser.
The real thing that I like from the Windy is its three cabin layout.
But if you want two cabins, you have Sessa, Absolute, Atlantis, Cranchi, Beneteau Monte Carlo, Prestige, Nord West which should present a new 420 this year and so on.
 
In response to Aquapower.

Some builders have realised and many more are looking at the option of the bolt on shaft system, very quick to install (probably as quick as a pod) far simpler which will help retain second hand values, with the performance or economy claimed by IPS or zeus, alongside the added benefits of lower maintenance and very simple cheap maintenance when it is needed. So the build advantages that IPS and Zues had are now there with a shaft system as well. There is a lot of re thinking goind on.

The Marex report has helped convince some of the sceptics, a number of builders are now in the process of offering the system as an alternative or as standard on premium models, but it takes time as mould inserts and hull strength changes are sometimes needed.
 
MapisM said:
Funny how the video on the link you posted says it all, really.
Assuming that if the builder wants to show how the boat rides in a video, he's going to use the boat which performs better, before forking out an extra £50k I would wonder why they're showing the sterndrive version. Which indeed rides beautifully, btw.
I'd be curious to see the same boat with IPS steering at speed, as shown at around half of that video...
Click to expand...

Yes indeed so. I wondered if anybody would spot that the demo boat was on drives...

According to my 2009 price list the difference is £52,474. To be fair, the D6 as used in the IPS 600 is rated 435hp vs 370hp for the sterndrive so the IPS boat has an extra 130 horses, but I've not been able to find different top speeds quoted. As a used propostition the IPS boat may make more sense if you like and trust pod technology, as I suspect much/all of that premium will evaporate.... just like with the Fairline T44 as PY has said and the OP hopes!
 
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