Have boat builders learnt Nuffink ?

[oldgit]

Just been looking at post from the proud new owner of a Princess 42, a very modern boat in all respects.
One sentence caught the eye, impellor needed to be changed.
Am going to assume from the tone of the comment and the fact it was even mentioned,that it was a bit of a b********r to do.
The difficulty of finding let alone getting access to water pumps on certain boats is the stuff of legend with Princess and Fairline among the chief culprits.
Have things changed with new boats or does it still need holes cut or half the interior dismantled to get to some vital piece of kit which will need servicing every year. l

 

[rafiki_]

Can't claim my Azi to be new, but I have to take the water pump off each engine to change the impellor. This means dismantling a fair bit of the raw water system for access. A task I would not fancy out on the ocean waves. Cannot blame Azi for the problem, it is inherent in the Cat engine. There are Azi issues, like access to the drive belts, as they are somewhat snug against the bulkhead.
I guess this is all in the quest of maximizing the "showroom" wow factor, with maximizing the living area on board.

 

[itchenseadog]

As a retired boatbuilder we were always taught that nothing could go in unless it could be taken out or accessed for maintenance. Unfortunately when accountants took over the industry that all changed and everything was cost driven to save every penny. I ended my career in the boat repair sector and the modern techniques of using structural adhesives meant that cost of repairs shot through the roof which is obviously reflected in increased insurance premiums for the boat owner.

 

[andy59]

I had to undo about 20 screws and remove saloon sofas , then lift carpet / underlay over into galley area . Then the floor panels up . To be fair Princess have a small additional floor panel that does improve access to the raw water pump , and the fuel tank is shaped to give some extra space but there is no way that this job could be done at sea . The old impeller was in very good condition annoyingly but just wanted to start from scratch with everything . I don't seem to recall many people saying that they have had impeller failure on these 70 series engines but have heard of quite a few on the KAD series as I had in previous boat . I wonder if they run slower so don't get hot as quickly if they run dry ? .

 

[Machaseo]

My 2001 Princess 38 with the 63p engines is a nightmare to change the starboard impeller, you either have to be a gynecologist built like a racing snake or take the alternator out.
Due to my genetic make up (pie eater) the latter is my method of choice.
I realise that standardisation of the engine build is a major driver but it wouldnt have taken much to mount the pump on the front of the engine, there is a plate on the front end opposite the pump already.

 

[lionelz]

My 2001 Princess 38 with the 63p engines is a nightmare to change the starboard impeller, you either have to be a gynecologist built like a racing snake or take the alternator out.
.

I'm not a gynaecologist but I'll take a looks springs to mind. I really do need the get my thoughts out of the gutter

 

[oldgit]

My gripe ...if you cannot get to it without some considerable effort ,it simply will not get checked and will be left to quietly fall to bits until it fails usually at a most awkward moment ,possibly destroying some expensive bits shortly afterwards.
Surely it cannot be beyond the wit of somebody to allow decent access to water pumps/water strainers and oil/fuel filters.
Apparently on the Turbo 36 you need to cut a hole in the shower base to get at the anode or P bracket bolts ?

 

[MapisM]

Cannot blame Azi for the problem, it is inherent in the Cat engine.

Not sure to see what you mean with that.
In a couple of 3126 that I've seen, the water pump was very similar to the one in my 3116, where it's just a matter of removing the flat cover on the pump to access and replace the impeller. Is your setup different?
One thing that IIRC is a PITA on your Azi is the access to the outboard side of the engines, which means that on port engine it might be tricky to reach the pump.
That's hardly Cat fault, though... Their fault was rather fitting those cheap Sherwood pumps. Then again, that has nothing to see with impeller access.

 

[asteven221]

For any future purchase servicing access is one thing I will always focus on as I had a nightmare with the my old Fairline 40 fitted with TAMD61a engines.

First of all you could not stand on any floor to work on the engines. It was impossible for anyone to get between the engines. Even if you could the drop to the bottom of the hull would be about 3ft from the bottom of the engines. Everything had to be done from the top lying on them. Further the inlet seacocks were in between the engines in the V at the bottom of the hull. So were the fuel pre-filters. Totally impossible to get at - even in a motivated emergency! Worse, the seacocks were the wheel handled sort of valves you get in domestic heating. Totally irresponsible of Fairline in my view and a serious safety issue. What were they thinking?

On a less dramatic issue, but a nightmare nonetheless, the water pump impeller was longer than the space between the pump and the fwd bulkhead, thus making it impossible to remove. Like some others said, the whole pump assembly needed to be removed and that was not easy! Never again will I buy a boat that's so badly designed in terms of servicing.

By contrast my current Sealine F44 is brilliant. In what is exactly the same engine layout as the F40, they have managed to mould a nice clean grp floor under the whole engine bay, with enough space for even me my ample frame to move easily between the engines. They even thought to mould in a small but deep sump into the forward part of the engine bay which makes cleaning the floor after servicing easy. Wash down and pump out. It all makes for a very clean engine room, even for a boat that is now 15 years old. The forward part of the bay has about 2ft between the flywheel and the bulkhead. Aft it's a bit tight, but even then Sealine have installed a large hatch in the lazarette for access to the reverse gear/sterngland/raw water filters. Either side between the engines and the fuel tanks, there isn't enough space to stand, but it's easy enough to lean over the engines to get at what you need to eg starboard water pump and oil filters. The pre-filters in the lazarette for easy access.

I do all my own servicing, so I get to know a boat very well and access is vital and I learnt my lesson with my old boat. Even if you get someone else to do it, and the boat is like my old F40, then I am sure they will either take shortcuts and not do it properly because it's such b$£$£$d of a job, or charge a fortune as they will need to dismantle half the boat to get at everything. The upshot I think is that a badly designed engine room is very bad news indeed and will almost certainly cost you a lot more in the long run.

 

[henryf]

On our P42 you didn't have to undo any screws to remove the saloon floor (which then gives very good access to the engines).

The starboard section of the flooring slid out from underneath the seating once the other flooring section had been removed.

Ideally a 2 person job to lift the floor sections out of the boat etc.

Henry

 

[septiclecky]

As a retired boatbuilder we were always taught that nothing could go in unless it could be taken out or accessed for maintenance. Unfortunately when accountants took over the industry that all changed and everything was cost driven to save every penny. I ended my career in the boat repair sector and the modern techniques of using structural adhesives meant that cost of repairs shot through the roof which is obviously reflected in increased insurance premiums for the boat owner.

That is the problem with these idiots all they see is pounds, shillings & pence and nothing else.

 

[andy59]

On our P42 you didn't have to undo any screws to remove the saloon floor (which then gives very good access to the engines).

The starboard section of the flooring slid out from underneath the seating once the other flooring section had been removed.


Ideally a 2 person job to lift the floor sections out of the boat etc.

Henry

I needed the extra space Henry as I'm not exactly built like a racing snake , ( unlike your good self )

 

[Portofino]

The beauty of a foreign boat show like Cannes or Genoa -unlike Libs /sibs -full of HSE tape ,can,t open that ,can,t walk over there etc -the foreigners let you open every hatch decend into every space .
This means at the end of the day you come home with dirty knee pads .
But and it's a big but if you are an experianced boat owner lets call it "affected " by daft access issues -at the end of the day -you have mentally eliminated duffers and have a very nice short list or potentials re access issues ..
Its number 1 first and foremost .
I can get between and either side of my man 700 ,s in my mid engined ( no mid cabin here or saloon floor FB ) open ITAMA
I have two hatches to enter in the cockpit -once in reach every thing -A bit like a garden potting shed ,a bloke can slope off into the E room -to get out of washing up etc

 

[henryf]

To be fair the British boat show at Swanwick allows access like that. I spent 10 minutes speaking with the sales director of Fairline in the Squadron 65 engine room!

I actually don't think there is a better show if you are considering something from Princess, Sunseeker or Fairline. Lots of boats, very few people.

I spent a lot of time in engine rooms this year and it was very interesting to see the difference between manufacturers. Some cram it all in and leave it to mechanics to sort themselves out, others allow very generous access. We are talking quite big boats here, not the sub 50 foot bracket.

When you are an owner you learn far more looking behind hatches than you do looking at the shiny varnish.

Henry

 

[oldgit]

For anybody doing trips of any decent length and who has been boating long enough to have experienced loss of power due to basic fuel/water problems , engine failure lurks constantly in the back of the mind..
The ability to be able to check easily important bits and pieces before departure and to be able to undertake simple remedial work out while in mid journey would definately be a positive in my book.
As most important bits seem to hang on the front of most engines how difficult can it be to design in a removable panel enabling access to alternator/water pump/ and their associated belts plus secondary fuel filters and oil filters.?