Has thethe wheel design been discussed in Hot Liquid thread?

[tim_ber]

www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=299316

Excellent report by the MAIB.

Well done to the winchman; what a job. Well done to chopper crew for getting him out of the sea after the fall in.

Now - I have plenty of thoughts upon the physical design of much of the equipment after having read the report and seen the photos; one of which is the wheel design.

Is it me, or can anyone else see what a poor structural design that is and how easy it would be to redesign the wheel so that it could NOT bend (short of MUCH larger forces being applied)?

Sadly, I cannot think of a way of protecting my design owing to too much prior art and would not know where to go to sell the design, so it will probably reside in my head (or be built for my own boat one day), but shame on the designers of that wheel - pretty maybe, but poor funtionally (in my opinion).

 

[npf1]

Which report by the MAIB?

 

[tim_ber]

It was a few pages into the Hot Liquid thread.

here it is:


http://www.maib.gov.uk/publications/investigation_reports/2011/liquid_vortex.cfm

 

[fireball]

I know of another wheel that was bent by crew weight being thrown against it - it didn't bend over and was "serviceable" after the event.
The thing is - if the wheel had not bent then the crew member thrown against it would've suffered significantly more damage.

AFAIK there isn't a huge number of bent wheels each year - which indicates that this isn't a real issue - but crews/skipper should be able to resolve and regain control over the boat should it happen.

 

[fireball]

It was a few pages into the Hot Liquid thread.

here it is:


http://www.maib.gov.uk/publications/investigation_reports/2011/liquid_vortex.cfm

That's for the accident they had in May 2011 ... not this one in Jan 2012 ...

 

[tim_ber]

Sorry

Sorry, just seen the date on the report - MAY.


Anyway, great report and congrats to rescue crew and what I say about the wheel still stands.

 

[tim_ber]

That's for the accident they had in May 2011 ... not this one in Jan 2012 ...

yep, you beat me to it.

 

[jimi]

Interesting that report recommends:

RECOMMENDATIONS
Hot Liquid Sailing Ltd is recommended to:
2011/148 Establish a robust safety management system to ensure:
• The risks to its vessels and crews engaged in commercial operations are identified and thoroughly assessed
• Comprehensive operational procedures and guidance are developed to mitigate such risks
• Management oversight to ensure compliance with its procedures, once these are established.


I do wonder what action was taken to implement these recommendations

 

[rib]

well ive seen 6 bav wheels break,

 

[jimi]

well ive seen 6 bav wheels break,

Jings, so they're not roadworthy as well a being not seaworthy!!

Blinking 'eck

 

[tim_ber]

I know of another wheel that was bent by crew weight being thrown against it - it didn't bend over and was "serviceable" after the event.
The thing is - if the wheel had not bent then the crew member thrown against it would've suffered significantly more damage.

AFAIK there isn't a huge number of bent wheels each year - which indicates that this isn't a real issue - but crews/skipper should be able to resolve and regain control over the boat should it happen.

Good point.
She would have broken rather than bruised ribs, or worse.

But, if pointy ends of boats were weak or had crumple zones, boats would sink even though any impact would be less forceful and not throw all occupants overboard (yes, I know that I am going too far with that example).

So question is, is it better to have a wheel that can never bend, a wheel that can bend and allow less injury, but potentially cause boat to lose ability to steer (maybe at a crucial moment? - something ahead to hit?) or make it really easy to affect emergency steering capability.

Upon reflection I think you are right, a weaker and prettier wheel is ok, but be sure to have quick access to emergency steering capability. Better still, have back up steering ready to function immediately.

Thanks for straightening me out there (pun intended).

BUT May 2011 and now 2012, and 2 incidents where mainsheet caused injury - someone wants to think about something there don't they? Or am I going off on one again?

 

[rib]

oh thay are sea worthy,just a tad uncomfortable and need a few running repairs

 

[jimi]

BTW the First 40.7 is manufactured by Beneteau not Bavaria.

 

[rib]

?

 

[fireball]

BUT May 2011 and now 2012, and 2 incidents where mainsheet caused injury - someone wants to think about something there don't they? Or am I going off on one again?

You missed the grounding on Goodwin Sands last Jan by a vessel owned by this company ... so thats at least 3 incidents in 12 months ...

However, the May incident, whilst serious is not uncommon - it seems plenty of vessels have accidental gybes resulting in crew injury - it's normally down to lack of concentration. Its one of the reasons why we now have a coach roof mainsheet ... if you're sat in the cockpit we can manoeuvre all you like - the mainsheet can't get you. ... but it isn't so good for sail trimming ...

 

[jimi]

You missed the grounding on Goodwin Sands last Jan by a vessel owned by this company ... so thats at least 3 incidents in 12 months ...

However, the May incident, whilst serious is not uncommon - it seems plenty of vessels have accidental gybes resulting in crew injury - it's normally down to lack of concentration. Its one of the reasons why we now have a coach roof mainsheet ... if you're sat in the cockpit we can manoeuvre all you like - the mainsheet can't get you. ... but it isn't so good for sail trimming ...

Coachroof mainsheet and boom above head height was a prerequisite when we got our boat, cos of the kiddies!

 

[Tranona]

well ive seen 6 bav wheels break,

Most Bavarias are fitted with standard Whitlock/Lewmar wheels, as are many other boats - so perhaps not a Bavaria unique problem (if indeed it is a problem - first I have ever heard of it) Not that I know everything but 6 breakages of one component on one make of boat observed by only one person does sound a bit odd.

 

[tim_ber]

I like Bavarias (and I like Beneteaux too).

I don't like Oyster.

But the wheel on the Bavaria I have just googled is even worse than the wheel on the beneteaux in the report - depending upon whether a strong of weak wheel is called for - and I think the conclusion was that weak is OK as long as it can be taken off quickly. So in that case, the Bav wheel is better.

On a Bav, the nut is plastic and can be taken off quite quickly can't it? The Beneteaux wheel looks like tools would be needed.

I could be wrong on both counts there - just looking at photos and I didn't pay much attention to the wheels when I sailed them. (probably why my wake was like a snake)

Yes, I love the mainsheet system on the Bav 35 or 36 or whatever it was I sailed on.

 

[awol]

Coachroof mainsheet and boom above head height was a prerequisite when we got our boat, cos of the kiddies!

Easier if you're a short-arse!

 

[rib]

well why dont you ask any sailing school that uses bav if thay have had a problem with the helm breaking at the hub,just where the spot weld is.and i think you may get a better informed answer