Harwich to Ramsgate for relative begginer?

[slawosz]

Hi,
I am wondering about going from Harwich to Ramsgate as my second 'big' trip on my sailboat. Its 24 ft fin keel, quite capable. First big trip would be Blackwater to Harwich day before.... Despite no certificate, I am quite capable for doing passage planning and navigation, just wondering if this is not too crazy. I am considering Wallet No 2 and Barrow No 2 as 'checkpoints', and if any doubts or bad timing, I would turn back to Harwich or Blackwater. I am happy to leave boat in Ramsgate Marina in case of bad weather. Obviously, I would need to come back to Blackwater from Ramsgate which looks like challenging trip itself. Or should I take it easy and do shorter trips like Blackwater - Harwich, Blackwater - Burnham instead? I would plan for passage speed 4 knots.

Thanks!

 

[LittleSister]

Choose your weather and get the tide right, and it will be fine.

They're all very doable trips, but I think you may be surprised how tiring just sailing along can be (especially if you're fairly new to it and it's a small-ish boat). Harwich to Ramsgate (or vice-versa) is a long day. So I'd say go for it, but perhaps only if you've a few days spare to rest a day or so in between.

'Crossing the Thames Estuary' by Roger Gaspar ('Tillergirl' of this parish) is worth having if you haven''t already got it. Also see his website - Home

For the Blackwater - Harwich (& return) trip try to get the tide with you up/down the Wallet, and avoid strong wind against tide. For Harwich - Ramsgate (& return) having the tide with you between North Foreland and Ramsgate is important - it's strong there and will greatly slow you down if you get it wrong.

Enjoy your trip(s)!

 

[Plum]

Hi,
I am wondering about going from Harwich to Ramsgate as my second 'big' trip on my sailboat. Its 24 ft fin keel, quite capable. First big trip would be Blackwater to Harwich day before.... Despite no certificate, I am quite capable for doing passage planning and navigation, just wondering if this is not too crazy. I am considering Wallet No 2 and Barrow No 2 as 'checkpoints', and if any doubts or bad timing, I would turn back to Harwich or Blackwater. I am happy to leave boat in Ramsgate Marina in case of bad weather. Obviously, I would need to come back to Blackwater from Ramsgate which looks like challenging trip itself. Or should I take it easy and do shorter trips like Blackwater - Harwich, Blackwater - Burnham instead? I would plan for passage speed 4 knots.

Thanks!

Yes, Wallet no. 2 and Barrow no.2 is a reasonable route, then through Foulgers Gat which takes you through the London Array windfarm. Enjoy!

Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk

 

[Denek]

We did Brightlingsea from Levington and back ( 2 nights at Brightlingsea) agree with little sister get the tides right and it’s a breeze. We are planning Ramsgate possibly later in the season. There are a few threads on here and I think they all suggest Rogers web site. It will be a long day. We were tired even going to Brightlingsea and were glad to have two nights there. Funny how sitting doing not much can still tire you out.

 

[Cotillion]

Leave Harwich two hours after high water. You then go across the ebbing tide to the Black Deep and by the time you have to turn South the tide will turn fair for you all the way to Ramsgate.

 

[ex-Gladys]

Why start from Harwich if you're in the Blackwater? Blackwater Landfall (from CTTE) is about to Ramsgate (via SW Sunk) is about 36 miles so without tidal considerations, your passage is 9 hours... I'm sure Tillergirl will be along soon and give you the options.
Harwich from memory will add about 3.7 miles, or another hour. With a 35 footer, I plan at 6kts, and complete the trip in a single tide cycle, so experience little adverse tide

 

[Marmalade]

Lowestoft To Ramsgate

Good advice from the acknowledged expert - Tillergirl

 

[johnalison]

Why start from Harwich if you're in the Blackwater? Blackwater Landfall (from CTTE) is about to Ramsgate (via SW Sunk) is about 36 miles so without tidal considerations, your passage is 9 hours... I'm sure Tillergirl will be along soon and give you the options.
Harwich from memory will add about 3.7 miles, or another hour. With a 35 footer, I plan at 6kts, and complete the trip in a single tide cycle, so experience little adverse tide

My thoughts too. We used to leave Maylandsea at about HW minus 3hrs. This meant crossing the estuary at about HW, making the chart almost redundant (joking). The return journey needs more care, with the Sunk crossing being the critical point.

 

[slawosz]

Thank you for your answers. I am glad to see there are no no-no's for this trip. I just got C1 Thames Estuary and 'Crossing the Thames Estuary', which kind of triggered idea of going to Ramsgate. Plan is as following: Blackwater-Harwich/Harwich-Ramsgate/Ramsgate-Blackwater. However, its an optimistic plan, as I might cut it short and do only Blackwater-Harwich and back (I have mooring near Osea Island). All depends on the forecast and tides.

I am not beginner to sailing, but I had long break and its my second season on tidal waters.

 

[johnalison]

Thank you for your answers. I am glad to see there are no no-no's for this trip. I just got C1 Thames Estuary and 'Crossing the Thames Estuary', which kind of triggered idea of going to Ramsgate. Plan is as following: Blackwater-Harwich/Harwich-Ramsgate/Ramsgate-Blackwater. However, its an optimistic plan, as I might cut it short and do only Blackwater-Harwich and back (I have mooring near Osea Island). All depends on the forecast and tides.

I am not beginner to sailing, but I had long break and its my second season on tidal waters.

We did Heybridge to the Swale in our second season with the children in a 22' Cirrus in 1973. No radio or GPS and had a lovely trip both ways. It is just a matter of sticking to what you know you are capable of and give a little margin here and there for the unknowns.

 

[Biggles Wader]

Are you alone or with (competant) crew? Either way Id base my cruise plans on the wind. A bit of Easterly makes Ramsgate so much more pleasant to get to.

 

[tillergirl]

PM sent

 

[ex-Gladys]

Are you alone or with (competant) crew? Either way Id base my cruise plans on the wind. A bit of Easterly makes Ramsgate so much more pleasant to get to.

... but can be so much more unpleasant when you are in the marina...

 

[slawosz]

Thank you @tillergirl for PM, I really appreciate. I will probably ask next year. This weekend I am planning to go from Osea to Harwich - Saturday, and back on Sunday. I am bit concerned about wind on Sunday (one forecast with ~ 6 kn), but I think its risk I can take.

 

[tillergirl]

I assume you mean a F6 - I haven't seen that. A F6 Westerly agains the flood would be ....'lumpy' (to say the least) but as I say I haven't seen a F6 predicted. Worth monitoring, the weather pattern is a little unpredictable.

 

[johnalison]

I assume you mean a F6 - I haven't seen that. A F6 Westerly agains the flood would be ....'lumpy' (to say the least) but as I say I haven't seen a F6 predicted. Worth monitoring, the weather pattern is a little unpredictable.

I don't think so. Passageweather is giving a useful SW for Saturday but lighter on Sunday and even N-NE for Monday.

 

[Tomahawk]

First Welcome to the East Coast.

Ah... vomit alley ... There is a reason the Wallet has its nik name. Wind against tide is often very unpleasant.

I suggest you get into the habit of looking at the weather forecast from a week out and every day to see if or by how much the forecast changes as your trio date gets closer.. this site is particularly good for that..
weather model gfs model - europe - precipitation [base + 3] | weatheronline

If the forecast is staying the same... regardless of whether it is showing lots of wind (and particularly rain) or none at all, you can be confident the forecast is going to come good. If it changes every day, it indicates the weather patterns are confused and it is likely the forecast may be wrong.

 

[ex-Gladys]

The only time Gladys has dipped her bows under is en route to the Mudway, down the Maplins in a SW F5....

Vis a vis weather forecasts... The GFS model in my experience is one of the least reliable for the UK... I use ECMWF (Reading University - Euro Centre for Meteorology and Weather Forecasting) or one of the WRF models. The GFS grid is 25km, so in a 625sq km square you get one forecast reading for each of the variables, bit like the applicability of Gibraltar point to N FOreland coastal forecast...
The WRF can be 9km or 3km...

 

[Tomahawk]

True enough ..
Weatheronline offers access to most of the different models.. simply choose from the box at the top..
I find they all have differing strengths and weaknesses. GFS goes out furthest.. though I am of the opinion that anything more than a week ahead is in the realm of fairy tales.

That is not a scientific opinion based on observation..

 

[johnalison]

I find that GFS is adequate for planning about three days ahead, though it has changed its mind about Monday next. A skilful skipper will look at several and choose the one that suits his purpose, ie, persuading the crew that it is OK to set out.