Happy, your boat's becoming dangerously overloaded

tcm · 13 May 2003

Bigger boat

Bigger boats aren't like bigger cars. If you need a lot of stuff (and from recent posts your chandleryitis is as bad as ever) then you need a bigger boat, no question.

For the same given passage, doing it a smaller boat is harder, not easier. It sounds as though you think otherwise. But the issues of getting swamped as per Grahamwignall in slight seas are far less likley, for example. A 275 can be trailered but not so easily and you would lose flexibilty. But I am afraid that from a safety point of view, that's a better size of boat for you.

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Happy1 · 13 May 2003

Re: Bigger boat

OR ditch the crap /forums/images/icons/wink.gif SO why do chandlery's sell all that stuff, it is just too tempting!! I would like to know who didn't have a peek in the Aladdins cave at Mercury, probably like a gambling addiction, chandlery addiction. Any ideas of how to overcome it, before sinking? /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

<hr width=100% size=1> "You only see what you recognise, and you only recognise what you know"

Guest · 13 May 2003

Re: Look at the photo of Happy\'s boat!!!!

Don't get me wrong, Pete, I'm not saying you should get a bigger boat until you want to, but do be aware of how much dead weight you are carrying. A three or four foot wave can come out of nowhere (you've obviously not experienced a tide race yet, I guess).

As for bilge pumps, forget them. The RNLI handbook quotes figures along the lines of 30,000 gallons/hour coming through a 2" diameter hole a foot below the waterline. The best manual pump can shift 2000 gal/hr for a few minutes, and a big leccy one can shift 3000 gal/hr.

I did the maths, and that 2" hole could sink Arcadia in four minutes. The key is to keep water out of the boat at all costs.

FWIW, at a guess, if you get swamped, and take 10cm depth of water onboard you'll be holding around 14,000 litres or just over 3000 gallons of water...

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Guest · 13 May 2003

Re: Bigger boat

You don't watch QVC as well do you?

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Happy1 · 13 May 2003

Re: Look at the photo of Happy\'s boat!!!!

Oi!! are you trying to put me off boating forever. I was so concerned at the weekend though when I saw all those small boats sinking as the ferry wake went past them, I was lucky to survive, phew!!

I think I will buy a survival suite to put all your minds at rest, or just go out in my dive gear, I mean you are meant to be in water with that so there's no problem, we can just use the DPV's to get us back /forums/images/icons/wink.gif As a diver the water does not worry me one bit, as long as I have the right kit. It is the ill prepared that have the problems, and boy have I seen some of those /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

<hr width=100% size=1> "You only see what you recognise, and you only recognise what you know"

Happy1 · 13 May 2003

Re: Bigger boat

What's a QVC? Do I need one, or are you trying to sink me /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

<hr width=100% size=1> "You only see what you recognise, and you only recognise what you know"

tcm · 13 May 2003

At least we tried

I think that's how I thought this thread would go. You're trying to "insist" that the boat isn't overloaded, that you're doing some good with all the gear. But in fact the reverse is true. The weight in that boat is a valid concern, and one that should be addressed before the next trip. A wave coming over won't be "that's life" but "that's death".

I'm afraid that arguing with others that black is white doesn't augur well. Even with experience, you should err on the side of caution, listen to any advice going, and if several concur, they may be right, and not you. Even though it's your boat and so on.

Put it this way - an experienced person would be wary of getting in a boat where their knowledge was going to be ignored, that if they said ooh have you considered such-and-such -that the owner skipper with less experience would brush away their fears. Your tendency to do this is shown in practise when barryh had to get the wheel out of your hands, perhaps indicating that you would not listen so he decided to take over, and fortunately he prevailed.

I understand that the essence of the quite basic ICC for sail or power is this: an instructor is given the pass/fail scale thus "Would you be confident in letting this skipper take your kids from Cowes to the Hamble?" . Unfortunately, with that boat and your attitude, I am probably not alone in saying no, I wouldn't.

But - good luck! Again, all imho and with good intentions

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Guest · 13 May 2003

Re: Look at the photo of Happy\'s boat!!!!

Not at all. Small boats bob around like corks in those conditions, for the most part (which can make them uncomfortable).

But tcm is being deadly serious talking about overloading. At a rough guess, half a ton of load, will reduce your freeboard by about 5cm, so if you are 50% overloaded, you are 3" closer to a swamping than an empty boat.

Please don't dismiss this as another 'Happy1 urine extraction' thread.

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jimg · 13 May 2003

Re: Look at the photo of Happy\'s boat!!!!

Happy,
For peace of mind, why not ask the RNLI to come to your boat and carry out one of their safety checks?

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wakeup · 13 May 2003

Re: At least we tried

"Put it this way - an experienced person would be wary of getting in a boat where their knowledge was going to be ignored, that if they said ooh have you considered such-and-such -that the owner skipper with less experience would brush away their fears. Your tendency to do this is shown in practise when barryh had to get the wheel out of your hands, perhaps indicating that you would not listen so he decided to take over, and fortunately he prevailed. "

This attitude displayed by H1 is the most commom cause of air accidents when one pilot ignores the advice of the other (usually the co-pilot). In fact pilots now undergo particular training called Crew Resource Management whereby they make sure that advice form other pilots is properly considered and that egos and dogma don't take over in flying decisions.

H1 can I recommend you think about taking a MoBo CRM training course. In otherwords, listen to what people vastly more experienced are saying to you, it might just save your life and others around you.

<hr width=100% size=1>Edited by wakeup on 13/05/2003 12:31 (server time).

Happy1 · 13 May 2003

Re: At least we tried

I appreciate all you have said, but as you are ware rumours spread for instance, BarryH asked if he could try out the boat, I agreed and he drove the boat the last quarter mile into Yarmouth to try it out, I had been driving the rest of the way with no incidents. So where the grabbing the wheel came from I don't know, same as the weight of the extra kit. The boat was also powerful enough to pull Col free from his grounding in Newtown Creek, so not a bad little boat /forums/images/icons/wink.gif I have a photo of the boat without anything on board the day it was new, I am happy to e-mail it to you and you can tell me if they have sold me dodgy goods /forums/images/icons/wink.gif The problem is the boat is only small anyway, so there is not much to stick out of the water /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

<hr width=100% size=1> "You only see what you recognise, and you only recognise what you know"

lyc · 13 May 2003

Re: Look at the photo of Happy\'s boat!!!!

<<We have to consider baby Charlotte 17mths, and of course would only go on fine weather passages with her on board, >>

I don't think that you can ever guarantee a fine weather passage. It only needs the wind to change direction or increase in strength a little, or to round a headland with wind over tide, overfalls, etc.

A larger boat will give you that extra margin of safety IMHO.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BroadsandEastcoastBoating/>Broads & East Coast Boating</A>

Happy1 · 13 May 2003

Re: Look at the photo of Happy\'s boat!!!!

This is being done, but unfortunately my boat has been at the dealer more than with me. I spoke to the RNLI the day I got it, they advised me on the equipment list, they also said I should have fairleads which are being fitted tomorrow. I will publish my RNLI sea check result on here. Hope to have the boat back by the end of the week.

<hr width=100% size=1> "You only see what you recognise, and you only recognise what you know"

Guest · 13 May 2003

Re: At least we tried

Happy, have a look at this site

There are countless interesting articles to read, one of which is....

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/sinking.htm

Geoff

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Happy1 · 13 May 2003

Re: Look at the photo of Happy\'s boat!!!!

My wife and baby went over to Yarmouth and back on Col's boat, beautiful and comfortable, but it will take a good few years to work up to something like that. We will just potter up rivers like the Medway with the baby, that was the reason for me mooring there if anyone remembers, very safe and plenty of room to play without going out into the North Sea.

<hr width=100% size=1> "You only see what you recognise, and you only recognise what you know"

Happy1 · 13 May 2003

Re: At least we tried

Thanks, looks great, seems to cover old and new boats. A lot seems to be on the design and build of the boat, that I can't change without changing the boat. I am very happy with it so far with regards to standard equipment list, layout, and performance, also reasonable quality for the money.

<hr width=100% size=1> "You only see what you recognise, and you only recognise what you know"

paulineb · 13 May 2003

Re: Bigger boat

I didn't peek !

<hr width=100% size=1>Pxx

<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.paulinebeddoes.co.uk/php-cgi/gallery>The Perils of Pauline in Pics</A>

tripleace · 13 May 2003

enough is enough.

It is quite clear from all these posts that whatever is said the answer Happy will give is to go to the chanderly and buy something to attempt to solve the problem.

All we can do is pray for good weather and hope that the lessons of learning the hard way are not fatal.

If ever there was a case for regulation in boating this was it.

Personally I had many years ago a 16ft shakespear sportboat and off Pagham (southcoast near Bognor) it got swamped near the beach. very frightening, and very quick.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.boating-ads.co.uk> Triple Ace Link</A>

Happy1 · 13 May 2003

Facts / Fiction / Rumours

Please can you list the items on my boat, what you feel is causing this fictional overweightness, and what you would discard. The safe maximum weight is 510kg

I doubt if anyone who has posted here can get past 80kg of weight

I will start you off with the heavy things :-

Mercury 3.3engine - 12kg
Zodiac 260 cadet - 19kg
Honda Eu10i gennie - 13kg
DSC radio - 500grms
Outboard bracket - 2kg

All items purchased have been weight chosen.

We will now see how much put on this thread is pure fact or fiction /forums/images/icons/wink.gif Please also bear in mind not all is taken at the same time e.g. gennie only for weekends away, but could be left in the car whilst boating.

 "You only see what you recognise, and you only recognise what you know"

Happy1 · 13 May 2003

It\'s all gone quiet over there!

Ah! I seemed to have proved some fiction and rumour going on /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

<hr width=100% size=1> "You only see what you recognise, and you only recognise what you know"

Happy, your boat's becoming dangerously overloaded

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