Hank on headsail conversion

[tsekul]

Hi all,

Is it fairly straight forward to convert a hank on head sail, to use on a roller furler, or are they of a different build and unsuitable to convert.

The reason I ask is we are looking at buying a boat with hank on and will be mainly cruising so would prefer to get a roller furler set up and are trying estimate costs. Broker says it fairly straight forward

Also, As you may gather we are fairly new to sailing, so this may be a really stupid question so I apologise in advance. Is it possible to set the boom higher and have a slightly smaller main sail. I am 6'5" and would prefer if possible to have the boom clear my head ! I don't mind if performance is reduced slightly but how does it affect the balance and setup of the boat.

thanks in advance

T

 

[prv]

The conversion can be done, but the consensus seems to be that the result won't be as good (when reefed) as a sail originally cut for the purpose.

Pete

 

[Tranona]

You need to discuss with a sailmaker whether it is worth converting the sail. It depends on the cut and condition of the sail. You may well find a package of roller furling and new sail is better than buying the furler and converting the sail.

Raising the boom is unlikely to be practical without moving the gooseneck and the bolt rope or slide entry - plus of course you would have to recut the sail.

 

[lw395]

Converting the luff to a bolt rope is not expensive, depends on the size of the sail obviously.
But the furler drum will raise the tack of the sail off the deck, that can lead to severe modifications if the head of the sail is then too near the mast or the jib tracks are not long enough.
If you have a decent(ish) No2 or 3 come with the boat, it might be worth converting that as a heavy weather sail, even if you get a new genoa.
It will (should) set better than a reefed genoa, and save hard wear on your new sail.

 

[Avocet]

We had Avocet's Genoa and Working jib both converted to roller furling when they were about 30 years old! It wasn't expensive and was done by the original loft that made them (much to their amusement)! We were told that the biggest problem with sail shape when reefed was usually caused by the sacrificial UV strip. As our sails were tan (and any further time we got out of them was a bonus anyway) we thought we'd give it a try and were pleasantly surprised by how little negative effect there was. It's true, the boat didn't point QUITE as high as she used to, but all in all, not as bad as we had feared.

 

[rob2]

Not contradicting any of the above - you may be able to get the jib converted. As to the mainsail, older designs often had a sliding gooseneck which gave around six inches of adjustment so it may be possible. Against this notion is that a downhaul was also used in the manner of a Cunningham to depower the main in stronger winds, so the gooseneck slid down again (and the kicking strap needed to be retensioned).

On a masthead rig, losing six inches off the height of the main is unlikely to noticeably affect the balance, but a fractional rig, where the main is proportionately much larger, you will lose much more drive and may need to retune to compensate and balance.

Based on one owner of a sister ship to mine, if you are 6ft or over it is essential to learn when to sit down! Blood stains are difficult to get out of the sails...

Rob.

 

[vyv_cox]

We bought a used No.3 jib with piston hanks. Had it changed to a bolt rope, surprisingly cheap at the time, many years ago. The change was successful, boat went very well with good sail shape. Then found that getting the genoa down in rising wind to replace with the No.3 was a virtually impossible job, so we had it changed back again and installed an inner forestay. Again, not that expensive around 10 years ago.

 

[William_H]

Furling jib

Contrary to many opinions on this forum I would advocate leaving the jibs hank on at least for some time till you get used to the boat.Hank on jibs will always point better into the wind than partly furled jib and this may be of importance to you in learning to handle the boat.
Just er on the side of caution with wind strength with a smaller jib. You can fit a pull down line from the head down to a pulley at the bow then back to the cockpit to enable you to douse the jib when mooring or if things go bad.
I have several friends who have tried furling jib conversion then returned to hank on. So give hank on a try.
Regarding boom height. You could try getting a flattening reef point fitted to the clew of the sail. ie another eyelet on the leach the back edge about 8 inches above the existing clew eyelet. Use this for the outhaul and wrap a rope or similar around the boom to lift the boom up the 8 inches. This will lift the boom at the back and less so in the middle. You will find with a little experience that your head is not the concern so much as the passenger's.
olewill

 

[antares]

Don't know if anyone has any experience of Kiwi Slides, made and marketed by Reef Rite, New Zealand. Have a look at their site, I thought they may have things going for them as an alternative (possibly cheaper) than putting a bolt rope on, but especially in dealing with the problems of dropping and then taming a flailing headsail on a bouncy foredeck, if you decide you want to change it. The slides keep the sail attached in the same way as piston hanks but allow use of a furler foil. It was suggested that perhaps they would point load a foil section, not so according to manafacturers. Anyone with hands on feedback?

 

[William_H]

Don't know if anyone has any experience of Kiwi Slides, made and marketed by Reef Rite, New Zealand. Have a look at their site, I thought they may have things going for them as an alternative (possibly cheaper) than putting a bolt rope on, but especially in dealing with the problems of dropping and then taming a flailing headsail on a bouncy foredeck, if you decide you want to change it. The slides keep the sail attached in the same way as piston hanks but allow use of a furler foil. It was suggested that perhaps they would point load a foil section, not so according to manafacturers. Anyone with hands on feedback?

Reading the story on Reef Rite it does seem that the slugs on the headsail would be a good idea. However you may have seen that they claim to use a larger groove section so one might imagine that the slugs will also be bigger. If you want to use slugs on an existing foil section then I would suggest you look for mainsail slugs and find a size to fit your foil. It should not be so difficult to fit and try yourself and still able to remove them if you don't like the idea.
Yes the Reef Rite looks like it has good features. The loading section of the foil with in effect a gate that can be locked looks good.
The paul on the drum would be very effective at enabling the jib to be pulled in tight when partly furled. Although you would still have the sail itself tightening up. The added wire and lever might be an additional unwanted control however. The cost is quite high for the system and it does not appear to cater for smaller boats.
So from one who uses bolt rope on mainsail and hanks on the jib I will stay that way. olewill

 

[John the kiwi]

Boom Height

I had a low boom on my 26 ft TS which was a concern to me for same reasons.
I have been sailing all my life and know when to duck, but i often sail with inexperienced crew.
Yelling out "duck!" is just as likely to cause them to stand up to look for a small aquatic bird of the family anatidae. (to misquote Douglas Adams..)

So with helpful sail-makers inspection i found that my main didn't actually hoist right up the mast. Gained about 120 mm and relocated the Goose neck.
This had multiple advantages as it also allowed better angles on the Vang.
His view was that sail should be to the top and just snugged up on the luff with any further luff tension to be made on the Cunningham.

However, of perhaps greater interest to OP is that another option we discussed was to re-cut the foot of the mainsail so that boom had more clearance over the cockpit with no other changes. This would have entailed a wedge of material being removed from about 200 mm at the clew to nothing at the tack. Cost for this was quoted at relatively small amount of money.
Overall area of sail loss would have been trivial compared with area remaining so unless you were hard out racing it would be hard to measure the effect.

Finally I should say that mast rake will affect this as well. Previous owner had raked mast back beyond design, but this was to compensate for a badly shaped jib causing a bit of lee helm.
Standing the mast upright back to design rake also lifted the boom over the cockpit.

Hope this helps

 

[rogerhudson]

I want the benefit of a quick change but still keep hanks, a vessel of about 29ft LOA near me has side-by-side twin forestays and uses downhauls and claims it's better than a roller.
The foredeck of a culass27 is like a bucking bronco upwind in a blow, just when I don't need the Genoa or a fat roller.
Why are the two foredeck cleats just where I want to put my foot ,or knee if crawling: we have a very good central mooring bitt.
Anyone use twin side-by-side?

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Roger,

I have used them on a Westerly GK29. They worked OK but in strong winds, when racing, sail changes could be a pain when the hanks on both sails fouled and hung up on one another. It is old fashioned technology and too much hassle in my opinion. Far better to fit a roller reefing system that is correctly set up. Plenty of sailors have this arrangement today and twin forestays are no longer common. You still have to go up to the foredeck with twin forestays anyway.

You could keep your hanked on sails and have a special forestay which could be attached just aft of the new furling system, but it kind of defeats the point. This system is commonly known as a "Solent Rig" http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?150967-Solent-rig-or-cutter-rig The most common use for a solent rig is in windy conditions when one may choose to hoist a working jib / N03 Genoa or a storm headsail. This inner forestay is stored at the front of the mast, or down the side of the shroud and is connected to the foredeck when required. There are various methods of connecting to the foredeck.

So, with a roller furling system and a Solent Rig, you could have the best of both worlds.

Hope this helps,

BlowingOldBoots

 

[langstonelayabout]

On a masthead rig, losing six inches off the height of the main is unlikely to noticeably affect the balance, but a fractional rig, where the main is proportionately much larger, you will lose much more drive and may need to retune to compensate and balance.

Based on one owner of a sister ship to mine, if you are 6ft or over it is essential to learn when to sit down! Blood stains are difficult to get out of the sails...

+1

Very true, but as a 6'2" ex-Finn sailor the only time you need to worry about the boom is when you are tacking or gybing. It is at these times you should duck. See, a useful tip and you've no need to worry any more.

 

[jwilson]

Contrary to many opinions on this forum I would advocate leaving the jibs hank on at least for some time till you get used to the boat.Hank on jibs will always point better into the wind than partly furled jib and this may be of importance to you in learning to handle the boat.
Just er on the side of caution with wind strength with a smaller jib. You can fit a pull down line from the head down to a pulley at the bow then back to the cockpit to enable you to douse the jib when mooring or if things go bad.
I have several friends who have tried furling jib conversion then returned to hank on. So give hank on a try.
Regarding boom height. You could try getting a flattening reef point fitted to the clew of the sail. ie another eyelet on the leach the back edge about 8 inches above the existing clew eyelet. Use this for the outhaul and wrap a rope or similar around the boom to lift the boom up the 8 inches. This will lift the boom at the back and less so in the middle. You will find with a little experience that your head is not the concern so much as the passenger's.
olewill

I agree with the suggestion of leaving the gooseneck where it is and raising the clew six to ten inches or so - whatever gives you the height you need. Preferably done by recutting the sail foot - a fairly easy job for a sailmaker, and neater than permanently having a small reef in place. It will make virtually no difference to performance.

If the hank on genoa is in really good condition it may be worth getting it converted, but don't bother if it's an old tired sail to start with.

Or just sail with hank on sails for a while: I did for many years. Much less to go wrong and usually a better sail shape. Depends on the crew and size of boat - at my semi-geriatric age I'd no longer be very happy with hank-ons on my 35-footer, whilst a roller makes her an easy singlehander if need be.

 

[Avocet]

I want the benefit of a quick change but still keep hanks, a vessel of about 29ft LOA near me has side-by-side twin forestays and uses downhauls and claims it's better than a roller.
The foredeck of a culass27 is like a bucking bronco upwind in a blow, just when I don't need the Genoa or a fat roller.
Why are the two foredeck cleats just where I want to put my foot ,or knee if crawling: we have a very good central mooring bitt.
Anyone use twin side-by-side?

Can't answer your question, but you have my sympathy as a fellow Cutlass owner when it comes to those &*%^ing cleats! Yes, the boat has a samson post you could dangle the whole boat from, but somehow, those other cleats on the foredeck always end up biting you!

 

[BruceDanforth]

when I bought my plastimo roller reefing it came with a bag of slugs to hoist a hank on sail. I've not tried them as yet.

Reading the story on Reef Rite it does seem that the slugs on the headsail would be a good idea. However you may have seen that they claim to use a larger groove section so one might imagine that the slugs will also be bigger. If you want to use slugs on an existing foil section then I would suggest you look for mainsail slugs and find a size to fit your foil. It should not be so difficult to fit and try yourself and still able to remove them if you don't like the idea.
Yes the Reef Rite looks like it has good features. The loading section of the foil with in effect a gate that can be locked looks good.
The paul on the drum would be very effective at enabling the jib to be pulled in tight when partly furled. Although you would still have the sail itself tightening up. The added wire and lever might be an additional unwanted control however. The cost is quite high for the system and it does not appear to cater for smaller boats.
So from one who uses bolt rope on mainsail and hanks on the jib I will stay that way. olewill

 

[PhillM]

Why bother converting to roller reefing until you have more experence?

As new to sailing, you are likly to be going on day sails and you can choose the sail you need for the morning / afternoon or even the day.

Get the hang of the boat before making changes. When you know what you really want do it - before youare guessing and could make an expensive mistake.

In my case I have decided to stay hanked on but have moved the boom to the top of the track to give more headroom. Changing from an old baggy main to a new sail more than compenensated for the small loss of material and as other poster have said, you can usually hoist a little higher.