Handling boating on trailers - winch questions (science and math!)

[Franknstein]

Hi all

I've got a 16.6ft speedboat with a 115hp outboard on the rear. Also, have a very narrow area at the rear of my property, there is a pavement and concrete area behind the boundary wall, and a wooden gate to access the rear yard. Then two long runners of concrete pavers where the wheels of the trailer will roll.

Till now, I've used concrete pavers and bricks as ramps up the pavement, and a hand winch, with a concrete anchor below ground... and lets just says its a real effort, and kinda makes a weekend away sour as I fight with the wife struggling the boat into the back yard.

My new plan for this season is to use an electric winch, with remote control, so at least I can push at the same time as steering and controlling the boat/trailer into position.

See my attached diagram for the scenario, as well as weights, and then my basic question is, will this winch do the job?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/POWERFUL-...tEquipment_Accessories_SM&hash=item589f5662fe
its 300W, 25A, says it can generate 2,000 LBS / 907kg of force.
UP TO 6,000LBS PULLING CAPACITY FOR ROLLING STOCK

Now, I've been using a hand winch which says 8000LBS. I must say when the rig is on the ramp section its incredibly difficult to winch it, like it feels the hand winch is at its limit.

I dont want to buy and make a custom mounting bracket for the electric winch only to bolt it up and it just makes a whining noise and doesn't pull the boat up!

Any thoughts/help/suggestions appreciated thanks.

 

[coliholic]

Can't see why that won't work, though you need to make sure the mounting point is strong enough otherwise the weight of the boat will pull the mounting out rather than t'other way round. An old winch off a landrover would do the job perfectly. Had a look on ebay and the one you show seems man enough for the job and at that price you can;t really go wrong

Bit easier and might be a bit more expensive, but how about fixing an electric caravan mover to the trailer? Like this
http://www.midlandmotormovers.co.uk/

Though I don't know how it would handle being dunked if that's how you launch your boat

 

[[2068]]

Also, unless it messes up the operation of the winch, I'd have the winch mounting pole tilting back, away from the boat at maybe 20 degrees or so.

 

[Lakesailor]

Can't you use your tow vehicle? A removable tow ball on the front would make it more manoeuvrable.

Longer, shallower ramps would give a big improvement.


...and don't fight with your wife whilst she is struggling with the boat. Top Tip.

 

[Franknstein]

Can't you use your tow vehicle? A removable tow ball on the front would make it more manoeuvrable.

Longer, shallower ramps would give a big improvement.


...and don't fight with your wife whilst she is struggling with the boat. Top Tip.

Not possible to tow-push it in, the space between the adjacent wall is about 10mm literally when the trailer is swung to the correct angle to push it straight inside.
I've bashed my head around possible solutions to this, and winch or caravan mover probably the only two - or bashing my landlords gate down which would allow me to push it in at an angle with the vehicle - would have to destroy the greenhouse too then.

Well last time, the wife dropped the jockey wheel on her toe, it was sore for weeks after, every time I mentioned the boat she reminded me of how it was my fault for leaving the jockey wheel in the boot of the car where she didn't see it, and knocked it off the boot onto her toe!

I'll make the winch pole at a slight angle, but weld the mounting plate parallel to the ground.

Caravan mover looks amazing, and would be brilliant, but its a bit too rich for me, as well as yes, it would get a serious dunking in salt-water regularly - doubt its made for that.

 

[Lakesailor]

Can you put it in nose first? Daft as it sounds it may be easier to pull it up the slope that way. I've tried both ways myself. (no, not that)

 

[VicS]

Hi all

I've got a 16.6ft speedboat with a 115hp outboard on the rear.

Any thoughts/help/suggestions appreciated thanks.

In theory the pull needed to pull 1000kg up a 20° incline is 1000 x tan 20 = 1000 x 0.364 = 364 kg

but of course that does not include any allowance for friction or the rolling resistance of the tyres


If you add 364kg to the pull required to move the boat and trailer on the level you wont be far out.


The shallower you can make the angle of the ramp the better. A 10° ramp would reduce the 364 figure to 176.

 

[dingdongs]

How about making really good use of an electric boat winch and have it so its connected where a normal winch would fit so it can be used to pull the boat onto the trailer too.
Have a ground anchor where the one in your drawing is but maybe just an eye concreted to the ground.
From this attach a rope with a bowline knot at each end.
Run one end of the rope to around where the transom of your boat is.
A safety lanyard from the eye on the bow of your boat to the post so it will not fall off the trailer.(Should have one in any case)
Dissconnect the electic winch that would be fitted to the bow and run it under the trailer (maybe via a roller or two) and connect to the rope that would be laying on the floor.now you can operate the winch electrically and steer the boat into position whilst your wife sits on the deck chair and guides the boat near the wall.
hows that????????? There are remote controls too for a winch so you can be at the back or front of the boat.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WIRELESS-WINCH-REMOTE-CONTROL-TWIN-HANDSET-12V-12-VOLT-/150998199514?pt=UK_Recovery_Tools&hash=item232831acda

 

[rbcoomer]

Interesting thread as I go through a similar process. Although our driveway is wider, I live right on the A380 and reversing a boat in isn't an option for most of the day so I have devised various tricks to maneuver in the driveway. I drive in, unhitch, move the car to one side and then manually rotate and reverse the trailer down the side of the house. We do have more room inside the drive however. The initial slope through our gate is steep - perhaps 1:1.6 but most of the drive is around 1:20. I can move the 14' around single handed - just (and with a few tricks) - but pulling up the 1:20 is hard work. The drive is gravel, so feet tend to slide and thus this and a move up to a 21' inboard V8 required a rethink. The 21' isn't in use yet as it's a work in progress, but I have moved around by chocking the wheels. For both trailers, placing a concrete block or wedge in front of one wheel and then pulling the trailer hitch to the that side will give you massive leverage. Then chock opposite wheel and pull back the opposite way - by repeating this the trailer can be 'walked' up the slope. Takes longer, but requires a fraction of the effort and you get it down to a fine art after a while! I've even moved the 21' partly up the 1:1.6 gradient, but at this stage you're into lengths of 4x2 timber for levers, ropes to tie off etc and continually have to consider where the weight is trying to go if you don't want to get mashed up!! When we get to the stage where the 21' is in use, I'll also look to move to the electric winch route as I know this will be heavy work each time - unless I can devise a turntable... Unless you spend a fair bit, winches might seem quite slow.

Plan B for you would be to mimic a block and tackle to reduce the pulling force - as you're always pulling from the same point, this should be quite easy to achieve. That or change the size of the winch pulley/add some gearing (depending on engineering skills )

 

[ProDave]

My few thoughts.

you want to ensure both trailer wheels are on the same point of the ramp at the same time. That's fine if where you park it is perpendicular to the pavement.

If not, then one wheel will hit the ramp first making the trailer want to turn. Is that what you are struggling with?

If so extend one ramp to ensure both wheels start and stop up the incline at the same time and the trailer will keep straight.

Also, don't tow from ONE point on the trailer. Make a bridle fixed to a point each side of the trailer, that will help keep it steering a straight course.

Make sure your jockey wheel is in good condition and free to rotate and swivel.

 

[Franknstein]

Thanks for all the thoughts and suggestions. I've attached a diagram of my actual situation from above.. there is very little space to maneouvre, and I have about 5 or 6 cm on each side of the trailer as I made the trailer quite wide.

I've dug the hole, and welded up a tube which is sunk into the ground, and another tube with a mounting plate, this slides down the anchor tube... and because of its angle, would not come out... so the garden ends up with a small hole about 2" x 4"....

The concrete is pretty hard now, but not hard enough I think to test it, but I am sure it will work. I sunk 6 bags of concrete in the hole (150KG dry weight)

I bought a 3000LBS rated line pull winch, with twin wireless remote, full reverse function all for £75 I think, and considering all the bits in the box, I think its a bargain - just hope it does the job!

Pics attached and will try get a video up of initial testing (but with no load).

********VIDEO******
[video]http://s25.photobucket.com/user/burisch/media/Video_zps400fca9d.mp4.html[/video]

 

[Nick_H]

A powered trailer dolly could be ideal for this requirement, though it may not be man enough for the kerb, and also may be too pricey given your earlier comments on budget