Hand held SSB for weather fax?

[Walnut]

I want to set up my laptop so that it can receive weather fax. Can I do this with a hand held SSB receiver such as the ICOM IC-R5 or similar. Can it be connected to the line in port on the laptop?

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[bruce]

yes it prob can, but may need a 'special cable', ham radio users have been connecting their rigs to computers for over 10 years. look for a ham radio equipment dealer.

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[Robin]

You can connect the external speaker outlet on the radio to the mic connector on your laptop. You will need software like JVComm, SeaTTY and others freely available at least in demo mode for web download. We use SeaTTY primarily but have JVComm as well as Mscan, SeaTTY was so good we paid the small reg fee (shareware) of about $25. JVComm has less intrusive 'demo' overwriting than Mscan which is so bad it is a poor way to persuade anyone to buy the program IMO. How well it works will depend on the siganal you receive on your portable, probably at least an external aerial will be required. We receive ours via a SSB transceiver and it is very good.

<hr width=100% size=1><font size=1>Sermons from my pulpit are with tongue firmly in cheek and come with no warranty!</font size=1>

 

[JonBrooks]

Hi

R5 is AM/FM/WFM only
Best bet from us will be the R20.
Is all mode and has a pc interface (CIV).
You will need a decent antenna.
AN active type more than likely

More expensive but a good radio.

Regards

<hr width=100% size=1>Jon Brooks
Marine Dealer Manager
Icom UK Ltd.
01227 741741

 

[Walnut]

I have just spoken to a radio dealer and he recommends using a Grundig Yacht Boy which is a portable radio that picks up SSB. Cost is £99.00 . Also recommended is the Roberts R861 at £179.00. I fear that the ICOM IC-20 at around £400 is a bit much for what I want.

Does anyone get their weather fax this way?

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[Ships_Cat]

As long as it is capable of receiving ssb you will find that even a quite simple radio will do an at least moderate job. The sound card in your computer will provide audio filtering which helps for poorer performing radios.

Lots of second hand radios will do, such as the Sony SW7600 and Sangeans (and of course the new ones as well). You should find that the headphone output on such radios will be sufficient to drive the computer's sound card.

John

<hr width=100% size=1>I am the cat but I am only 6.

 

[steverow]

Would suggest that If not the Icom, then go for the NASA target HF Receiver.
You will need the /P version with the audio out socket.
This connects to the line in socket of your computer.
Use JV Comm 32 software (Downloadable free at <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.jvcomm.de>http://www.jvcomm.de</A>)
You will need the accompanying NASA HF active antenna, (a foot long stubby tube)
This setup works extremely well, and will only cost you about £150 to £170 if you shop around.
Best deal I had on the Target at the time (18 months ago) was from Seateach in Emsworth by mail order.
The Target has coverage from 100kHz to 30Mhz with no gaps, and will outperform
by miles any domestic SW portable like the Yacht Boy. It also betters most scanners on HF.
The problem you will have with a domestic SW RX is that you will have to tune on the "side" of the signal to fully or even partially resolve the sideband signals.
Those with a BFO (beat frequency Oscillator) are usually rather crude affairs.
Ideally you need a CIO a "carrier insertion oscillator", for best resolution of the sideband signal, that recombines the missing sideband with an adjustment of fine frequency usually called a "clarifier".
Basically you should look for a dedicated HF SSB RX and the NASA, as Indeed does the ICOM, fulfils this role admirably.

Hope that all makes sense

Steve g1fip.

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[Ships_Cat]

<<<The problem you will have with a domestic SW RX is that you will have to tune on the "side" of the signal to fully or even partially resolve the sideband signals.
>>>

An interesting claim, but I think you will find that they all work the same - you tune the radio so the desired side band is in the radio's IF filter passband and offset from the supressed carrier frequency so that the fax black and white audio tones are correct frequency. In some older radios there may be a seperate BFO control, which one just adjusts until the tones are correct frequency but that is uncommon.

That can all be summed up in very simple and understandable terms - it is not anything that anyone needs to worry themselves about.

Perhaps you are thinking of the tuner offset from published frequencies of fax stations - that is only a function of whether the frequency display shows the frequency of the suppressed carrier or of the sideband, and may (usually) or may not apply to any radio (domestic or not) and is certainly nothing to do with BFO, CIO, or even the CIA or FBI.

John

<hr width=100% size=1>I am the cat but I am only 6.

 

[steverow]

"An interesting claim, but I think you will find that they all work the same - you tune the radio so the desired "side" band is in the radio's IF filter passband and offset from the supressed carrier frequency so that the fax black and white audio tones are correct frequency. In some older radios there may be a seperate BFO control, which one just adjusts until the tones are correct frequency but that is uncommon."

Which is exactly what I was trying to say in my own clumsy way.

We have both overlooked a couple of important issues here:

As sets like the Yacht Boy and others were primarily designed as AM/FM broadcast receivers (at least they were when I was servicing them 20 yrs ago), and even though the modern equivalents are synthesized, there are several issues which come to mind.

Frequency Stability can sometimes be a problem due to poor quality production components in the PLL reference oscillator and VCO, requiring regular minor tweaks to keep on channel. A couple of hundred Hertz doesn't matter on a widish signal but when trying to tune a weak weather fax signal and keep the spectrum steady on JVcomm, it does.

Secondly, the selectivity of these sets is usually not as good as a dedicated HF SSB Marine or Amateur radio giving rise to adjacent channel interference. (The IF Filtering is usually more tailored to a 9kHz wide broadcast station) More often than not they use the standard Murata 455kHz Ht or F units, and cheapish single pole production ceramics at 10.7. (Assuming Double Conversion of course)

Thirdly, RF sensitivity will probably not be as good. Lets be honest, signals from Northwood aren't always that good in the UK so every little helps, particularly when dealing with QSB.

IMHO Walnut's money would be far better allocated to a dedicated Multi Mode Marine HF or Amateur RX rather than a set primarily intended for BC reception.

From your previous post I assume you are a radio engineer and understand these concepts, otherwise my apologies for being overly technical.

Steve, g1fip





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[Ships_Cat]

No argument that a high quality receiver or transceiver would do a better job. However, the original post specifically asked about applying more simple radios.

In my experience, simple radios (providing they can receive ssb) do an adequate job and I have previously made comparisons of them against higher quality equipment.

I have not found the selectivity of the simple radios much of an issue for fax as the computer sound card DSP gives good audio selectivity which to a large degree substitutes.

Frequency stability is not an issue with 800 Hz wide fax signals unless it is exceptionally bad. The main risk would seem to be the possible loss of the sync signal but I have not found that to be a problem. Perhaps you are thinking of RTTY and other 2 tone modes where with tight filtering (at IF or demodulator) a small frequency drift will lose one tone or the other resulting in complete failure.

Again, it is agreed that an expensive radio would do a better job (but not in my experience massively so), but that is not what was asked by the poster.

John

<hr width=100% size=1>I am the cat but I am only 6.

 

[ianabc]

The Eton radio E10, same as the new Grundigs, and superior to the Yacht Boy, has digital freq. lock, 3 methods of tuning and hundreds of memories...made in China and sold on ebay as identical model with different logo.

BUT beware on ebay there are some with only the Chinese script on buttons.......Mine has Chinese logo and English script. Equivalent of 35 Pounds Sterling.

Have not tried it for weatherfax/computer link yet.......

<hr width=100% size=1>Building a steel sailboat in Comox, B.C. Canada.

 

[Walnut]

Summary

Thanks everyone for helping me out on this one. It seems that there are two options: Expensive Ham equipment and cheaper gear.

I am looking for an inexpensive option that will do the job, i.e., get weatherfax on my PC. So here is what has been suggested:
Portable world band radios that have SSB:
Prices at www.nevada-radios.co.uk are:
Grundig Yacht Boy 400PE £99.00
Roberts R861 RDS PLL Digital World Radio £ 179.00
The Eton radio E10 was suggested but I looked the spec for it and it doesn’t do SSB. However the Eton E1 XM does but I can't find a price anywhere (www.etoncorp.com).
Also second hand equipment (Sony SW7600 and Sangeans) can be bought.

Fixed in the Boat:
Price from www.southernmarine.co.uk
NASA Target HF3P receiver £167.41
NASA Target HF3M receiver as NTHF3 plus weatherfax data interface £199.95
The HF3M looks like the HF3P with a cable and some shareware bundle.

All these can be connected to a laptop’s line in and I can run inexpensive shareware programs such as SeaTTY or JVComm.

Thanks to Steve for giving his example. Are there any other people with examples of exactly what their set up is and how much it cost and how well it works?


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[Ships_Cat]

Re: Summary

<<<Are there any other people with examples of exactly what their set up is and how much it cost and how well it works?>>>

Look at Trevethan's post in the Spawned by online while boating. "Wanted techie" thread on Liveaboard and active last week - perhaps you could PM him.

I have helped several forumites set up simple receivers for fax - perhaps they will respond.

John

<hr width=100% size=1>I am the cat but I am only 6.