Halyards

[onesea]

Ok I really should change some halyards, fitted are old wire spliced to rope, they are past it...

2 halyards spinnaker/ head-sail at 30m and main at 35 is no small outlay about 70m...

Basically its £400 for Cruising Dynema or half that for polyester or do I stick with original combination? The only reason we are changing is they are knackered.

Should I go:
Wire/ rope combination?
Polyester Spinnaker halyard (presently only used once ) & Headsail,
Main Dynema

Any recommendations on suppliers?

Other info:
Boat 1980's 3/4 Tonner used for cruising and 1 race so far in 6 months!
Sails are various good exotic racing (not used yet),
Old exotic racing although this we plan to replace with Dacron once budget permits (or when old sail is dead ).

There are lots of things we should be spending money on other than the boat, so keeping costs down is important.

Then we appreciate our sailing and performance...

 

[skip50]

No idea of costs, but the foresail needs a low stretch halyard at least as much as the main, I would have thought.

 

[wklein]

I would definitely go for cruising dyneema, wire rope halyards are not really used anymore as the splice is very time consuming and the wire tends to work harden pretty quickly as well as being hard on sheaves and the rig generally. Spinnaker halyard is best in polyester as spinnakers are very stretchy anyway the stretch in the halyard is not noticeable.

 

[PlankWalker]

Do check the sheaves at the mast head they may be solely designed for wire in which case you've got more expense.

If your not seriously into racing, Marlow Braid or similar polyester would be adequate.

Plank

 

[John the kiwi]

I would definitely go for cruising dyneema, wire rope halyards are not really used anymore as the splice is very time consuming and the wire tends to work harden pretty quickly as well as being hard on sheaves and the rig generally. Spinnaker halyard is best in polyester as spinnakers are very stretchy anyway the stretch in the halyard is not noticeable.

+1
Some advocate only polyester for Spinnaker Halyards to reduce shock loads when the spinnaker snaps open.
https://www.spinlock.co.uk/suggests/?boatsize=0&boattype=0 has a useful selection guide in case you hadn't found it.
If your exit boxes are sized for wire, you may need to change them for rope.
A hassle but worth doing IMHO.

 

[wotayottie]

Ok I really should change some halyards, fitted are old wire spliced to rope, they are past it...

2 halyards spinnaker/ head-sail at 30m and main at 35 is no small outlay about 70m...

Basically its £400 for Cruising Dynema or half that for polyester or do I stick with original combination? The only reason we are changing is they are knackered.

Should I go:
Wire/ rope combination?
Polyester Spinnaker halyard (presently only used once ) & Headsail,
Main Dynema

Any recommendations on suppliers?

Other info:
Boat 1980's 3/4 Tonner used for cruising and 1 race so far in 6 months!
Sails are various good exotic racing (not used yet),
Old exotic racing although this we plan to replace with Dacron once budget permits (or when old sail is dead ).

There are lots of things we should be spending money on other than the boat, so keeping costs down is important.

Then we appreciate our sailing and performance...

Had the same issue on my 35 footer. Replaced the wire jobbies spliced into 12mm poly with 10mm cruising dynema bought off ebay. The minusses were that it was a cow to splice and it isnt as nice to handle. The plus is it works beautifully and runs over the pulleys ( unchanged) way better. For the first time ever I can fully hoist my main without using a winch - with the old ones I had toi use low speed for the last foot or so. And its softening up handling wise as its used.

Cost me about £200. But as an inveterate sail tweeker and casual racer, I'm pleased I didnt compromise

 

[BabaYaga]

The minusses were that it was a cow to splice

Does not necessarily need to be spliced, see description of halyard knot, page 16, Hints and Advice from Seldén.

 

[Iliade]

You do only need really quite thin dyneema, which is part of its advantage. check load rating, but probably something like 6mm would be more than adequate, depending on the spec. of the particular line you are using. Also Kevlar could be considered.

The issue is it is hard on the hands when so small, but if you start to winch up the sails a little earlier than previously...

 

[rob2]

Yes the SWL of 6mm nay be adequate, but bear in mind that your clutches and winches may not be effective on such a small diameter. More expense!

Rob.

 

[William_H]

Dyneems /spectra

I fitted 6mm spectra to my little 21ft fractional rig and was very disappointed with the stretch performance.
Sure I race it and insist on w well tensioned jib luff and I drop the jib several times during a short race (spin runs) but it is tedious to have to retension the jib halyard a few minutes after tightening it up. I replaced with 8mm spectra and that is far more stable. Really for the OP I would stick with the wire on rope until they are clearly beyond hope then replace with a good sized dyneema. olewill

 

[lw395]

You could consider tapered halyards, with dyneema cored rope replacing the wire end, spliced into braid on braid for the handling end.

 

[wklein]

You could consider tapered halyards, with dyneema cored rope replacing the wire end, spliced into braid on braid for the handling end.

Not worth the hassle IMHO splicing two different sized lines together would be an absolute nightmare and the result would not be particularly strong. If it was me i would go for 8mm cruising dyneema. Its no more difficult to splice than braid on braid once you get used to doing it. Surprised by the stretch reported by a previous poster, might have needed a bit longer to bed in properly. Kevlar cores have no advantages these days. dyneema will last a lot longer.

 

[lw395]

Not worth the hassle IMHO splicing two different sized lines together would be an absolute nightmare and the result would not be particularly strong. If it was me i would go for 8mm cruising dyneema. Its no more difficult to splice than braid on braid once you get used to doing it. Surprised by the stretch reported by a previous poster, might have needed a bit longer to bed in properly. Kevlar cores have no advantages these days. dyneema will last a lot longer.

I don't find splicing dyneema into double braid that hard to do.
I think there is plenty of info on Youtube among other places.
The result should be plenty strong enough, as the issue is rarely breaking strength, more a matter of stretch.
The problem with downsizing to all dyneema is that the clutches may need changing. Self tailers may not work very well either.
Also handling the halyards can be harder. It's perhaps OK on a race boat to expect the crew to be always wearing gloves, but I prefer not to on a cruising boat.

Phrases like '6mm dyneema' need to be used with caution, it can mean anything from 6mm dyneema sk12 down to a rope with a thick sheath over a 4mm braid of 50% dyneema.
The second may be an excellent rope in many applications, but will stretch a lot more than the first for the same load.
I would start by finding out what the load on a particular halyard is likely to be, then look at the breaking strain and stretch characteristics of the various ropes.

 

[onesea]

I don't find splicing dyneema into double braid that hard to do.
I think there is plenty of info on Youtube among other places.
The result should be plenty strong enough, as the issue is rarely breaking strength, more a matter of stretch.
The problem with downsizing to all dyneema is that the clutches may need changing. Self tailers may not work very well either.
Also handling the halyards can be harder. It's perhaps OK on a race boat to expect the crew to be always wearing gloves, but I prefer not to on a cruising boat.

Phrases like '6mm dyneema' need to be used with caution, it can mean anything from 6mm dyneema sk12 down to a rope with a thick sheath over a 4mm braid of 50% dyneema.
The second may be an excellent rope in many applications, but will stretch a lot more than the first for the same load.
I would start by finding out what the load on a particular halyard is likely to be, then look at the breaking strain and stretch characteristics of the various ropes.

Thanks for advise head blocks should all be good for Dyneema, clutches should also be good to 10mm reluctant to go smaller for hands and chafe reasons.

Leaned another thing the other day the main halyard is also the topping lift. This when the boat is not in use spends its time chafing on the running backstays so I need to find a way to stop that before changing halyards out...

I guess it could also be why she does not have a dedicated topping lift.

 

[lw395]

Thanks for advise head blocks should all be good for Dyneema, clutches should also be good to 10mm reluctant to go smaller for hands and chafe reasons.

Leaned another thing the other day the main halyard is also the topping lift. This when the boat is not in use spends its time chafing on the running backstays so I need to find a way to stop that before changing halyards out...

I guess it could also be why she does not have a dedicated topping lift.

Can only suggest securing the boom amidships and perhaps bring the runners forward with a line to the toe rail on the mooring. Bit of a faff. Are the running backstays wire?

 

[charles_reed]

Ok I really should change some halyards, fitted are old wire spliced to rope, they are past it...

2 halyards spinnaker/ head-sail at 30m and main at 35 is no small outlay about 70m...

Basically its £400 for Cruising Dynema or half that for polyester or do I stick with original combination? The only reason we are changing is they are knackered.

Should I go:
Wire/ rope combination?
Polyester Spinnaker halyard (presently only used once ) & Headsail,
Main Dynema

Any recommendations on suppliers?

Other info:
Boat 1980's 3/4 Tonner used for cruising and 1 race so far in 6 months!
Sails are various good exotic racing (not used yet),
Old exotic racing although this we plan to replace with Dacron once budget permits (or when old sail is dead ).

There are lots of things we should be spending money on other than the boat, so keeping costs down is important.

Then we appreciate our sailing and performance...

I've gradually changed all my halyards over to UHMWPE over the last 20 years, starting with my #1 spinnaker.
I've never regretted it.
Beware using "cruising" Dyneema with jamming clutches - the outer case is soft and wears long before the halyard might need replacement.
I've been able to drop one size compared to polyester, reducing frictional losses and the apparent cost difference.
As to clutch capacities, only if you're at the lower limits on ring clutches will you have a problem in dropping the diameter. ie a Lewmar 10-12mm clutch is useless on 8mm UHMWPE.
UHMWPE = ultra-high molecular weight polyethylene
UHMWPE does stretch more than Vectran (or Kevlar) and I'd suggest that those who are looking for anything like the stretch resistance of wire should look at one of those (though Kevlar is UV degraded and fatigue-fractures easily and I'd never again touch it with a bargepole)

 

[wklein]

UHMWPE = ultra-high molecular weight polyethylene
UHMWPE does stretch more than Vectran (or Kevlar) and I'd suggest that those who are looking for anything like the stretch resistance of wire should look at one of those (though Kevlar is UV degraded and fatigue-fractures easily and I'd never again touch it with a bargepole)

Just for clarification (not aimed at you charles): UHMWPE is the chemical name for Dyneema and Spectra (both are trade names for the same basic material)

According to the manufacturers dyneema is less stretchy than the same diameter 7x19 wire which from my experience has appeared true. Vectran is an option and has some advantages but is very expensive and as the OP is not looking at even racing dyneema it is probably beyond what he would like to spend.

 

[Ex-SolentBoy]

Ok I really should change some halyards, fitted are old wire spliced to rope, they are past it...

2 halyards spinnaker/ head-sail at 30m and main at 35 is no small outlay about 70m...

Basically its £400 for Cruising Dynema or half that for polyester or do I stick with original combination? The only reason we are changing is they are knackered.

Should I go:
Wire/ rope combination?
Polyester Spinnaker halyard (presently only used once ) & Headsail,
Main Dynema

Any recommendations on suppliers?

Other info:
Boat 1980's 3/4 Tonner used for cruising and 1 race so far in 6 months!
Sails are various good exotic racing (not used yet),
Old exotic racing although this we plan to replace with Dacron once budget permits (or when old sail is dead ).

There are lots of things we should be spending money on other than the boat, so keeping costs down is important.

Then we appreciate our sailing and performance...

Here's a way of saving loads of money if you have sails that stay up on a furler or inmast main.

Just have enough Dyneema to go from the top of the mast to where the halyard exits the mast and goes round a winch.
Put a soft loop in the end of the Dyneema.
Carry a halyard extension made of cheaper thinner rope and put a little Spectra lashing on it.
When you want to drop the sail you just attach the extension piece.

We have this for all our halyards. Saves money and you dont end up with a great big coil of expensive line hung on the mast in the weather.
You can even get away with one extension piece that is long enough for all your sails.

 

[lw395]

Here's a way of saving loads of money if you have sails that stay up on a furler or inmast main.

Just have enough Dyneema to go from the top of the mast to where the halyard exits the mast and goes round a winch.
Put a soft loop in the end of the Dyneema.
Carry a halyard extension made of cheaper thinner rope and put a little Spectra lashing on it.
When you want to drop the sail you just attach the extension piece.

We have this for all our halyards. Saves money and you dont end up with a great big coil of expensive line hung on the mast in the weather.
You can even get away with one extension piece that is long enough for all your sails.

That's actually a bit like dinghy practice. A thin tail to hoist the sail, then a tensioner tackle clips on to adjust it. Some dinghies even leave the tail ashore!
It might apply to a yacht with several jibs all of similar luff length, but deep reefing the main is an issue, if you have slab reefing.

 

[wklein]

Here's a way of saving loads of money if you have sails that stay up on a furler or inmast main.

Just have enough Dyneema to go from the top of the mast to where the halyard exits the mast and goes round a winch.
Put a soft loop in the end of the Dyneema.
Carry a halyard extension made of cheaper thinner rope and put a little Spectra lashing on it.
When you want to drop the sail you just attach the extension piece.

We have this for all our halyards. Saves money and you dont end up with a great big coil of expensive line hung on the mast in the weather.
You can even get away with one extension piece that is long enough for all your sails.

They use a similar system on boats 50ft + instead of using expensive clutches. They have a track on the mast which is tensioned by a line to the winch and then left in place on a plunger. Works brilliantly despite the crummy description. Be careful who you get to remove your sails though, seen quite a few which have disappeared up the mast.

http://www.antal.it/Inglese/CarrelliT/07-Drizza.htm

Or even better you can get a selden backstay adjuster which is adapted to do the job. Gives you a huge amount of power and allows you to adjust tension